Most Inhumane Weapon

I like this philos...whatever it was. Quite simple really.. For the most part men are only violent when pushed into it, unless they unfortunately have a family history that way. If someone angered me in my younger days? I would wack him. a stupid thing to do, specially when I busted my left hand on the blokes head.

Beautiful left hook though! But still stupid!
Sapper

 

Gee, I'd like to know more 'bout this!

 

I would have to say that the Germ warfare designed by the British was pretty unpleasant the anthrax bombs they dropped on a small scottish island to demonstrate the consequences if the Germans used their advanced gas weapons. Forty years later they had to burn the top soil off the whole island to render it safe not a nice weapon. It not only kills painfully but renders the environment where the bomb is dropped toxic so unlike weapons like G & S type nerve gases available to Germany,or the mustard and hydrogen cyanide gas available to the allies.

The British continued with bacterial weapons after the war indeed they handed their research over to the US who had focused on atomic weapons for US help with the H bomb. Apparently the US was so impressed with how lethal the results were they negotiated a complete ban with a year or so banning all such weapons with the USSR.

For short distance weapon some of the Fougasse booby trps designed for defence against invasion by the royal engineers were pretty horrifying. They were integrated into fixed defences and apparently the biggest ones could throw a fire ball three hundred feet not a nice way to go.

 

Humane, Inhumane?

What is humane or not when it comes to weapons or war? The one that kills without the victim’s knowledge like the blast effect of an atomic, or the un-smelled un-suspected effect of a nerve agent?

Death by fire seems the least humane on the surface, but this must also be put into consideration; Napalm itself was developed at Harvard University in 1942-43 by a team of chemists led by chemistry professor Louis F. Fieser, who was best known for his research at Harvard University in organic chemistry which led to the synthesis of the hormone cortisone.

Napalm was formulated for use in bombs and flame throwers by mixing a powdered aluminium soap of naphthalene with palmitate (a 16-carbon saturated fatty acid), also known as napthenic and palmitic acids, hence napalm [another story suggests that the term napalm derives from a recipe of Naptha and palm oil]. Naphthenic acids are corrosives found in crude oil; palmitic acids are fatty acids that occur naturally in coconut oil. On their own, naphthalene and palmitate are relatively harmless substances.

Oddly enough death-burn victims of napalm do not experience as much pain as 1st degree (sunburn) victims due to the adhesive properties of napalm that stick to the skin. That is because the substance reduces the oxygen in the area of its introduction and produces very rapid loss of blood pressure, unconsciousness, and death in a short time. While it is fearful to witness, and be inside of; I would bet, a large amount of carbon monoxide is produced once a napalm weapon is used and this makes it impossible for people to breathe, which causes them to pass out long before they actually burn.

When Napalm ignites, it rapidly deoxygenates the available air. Oxygen is replaced with carbon monoxide (CO) as a result of its own incomplete combustion. Napalm creates a localized atmosphere of at least 20 percent carbon monoxide, in which most victims pass out long before they suffer from; or even feel the burns. This is reported from those few who did survive Napalm weapons.

It is the 2nd degree burns such as likely to be suffered by someone hit with a small splash of napalm are the severely painful ones, and also the only ones most likely to have survived. But that said those wounds are also likely to produce hideous scars called keloids and diminished motor skills.

Extreme 3rd degree burns are typically not painful at the time of their infliction, since only the cutaneous (skin) nerves respond to heat and full-thickness (third-degree) burns, which have killed all the nerves before the napalm has replaced the oxygen with carbon monoxide. This is reported and documented by fire-fighters who survive 3rd degree burns long enough to be interviewed. They (sadly) usually succumb to infection rather than original burn damage.

American modern day "napalm" uses no Napalm (naphthalene or palmitate) at all. It instead uses a mixture of polystyrene (plastic), gasoline and benzene. This modern napalm is a mixture of benzene (21%), gasoline (33%), and polystyrene (46%). Benzene is a normal component of gasoline (about 2%), while the gasoline used in the "new" napalm is the same unleaded gas that is used in automobiles.

Napalm-B had one great advantage over the original napalm of WW2. The ignition can be readily controlled. Napalm-B is less flammable than even gasoline and therefore less hazardous for both handling and deploying. The more polystyrene in the mixture, the harder it is to ignite. A match or even a road flare will not ignite it. Timed initiators made of Thermite is typically used to ignite Napalm-B these days.

Then one must put starvation right up there as well, and that puts "blockade" into the query of least humane weapon of war. It will drive people to cannibalism, which is certainly not "humane" but understandable in the circumstance of war. And an accepted "tactic" of warfare since the times of the Greek inter city-state wars between Athens, Sparta, and Corinth.

In nerve agents during the WW2 years, there were only a couple really done up, and none were used so they really cannot count. Under the Nazi ten years of control of production at IG Farben about "only" 12,000 tons of tabun were actually produced for Germany, but DuPont knew the "formula", and had vastly superior production abilities if called upon. Even though their internal records seem to indicate only a "few thousand tons" of the tabun agent were produced and stockpiled by DuPont during WW2. The nerve agent sarin was developed while the two companies were "separated by war"; but chemists on both sides knew how good the others were.

The Nazi's I.G. Farben chemists couldn’t risk that the DuPont chemists hadn’t already discovered sarin and with their massive production capabilities, also produced and stored sarin as well as tabun. And let’s not forget that the Nazis really only managed to manufacture several hundred pounds of sarin before the Allies ran them to ground and put the whole system to an end.

We (America) had our own "new and improved" mustard gas, not the same as the WW1 version, but a better and quicker version (nitrogen rather than sulfur based), so now the victim smelled something like roasted garlic rather than rotten eggs. It would still burn the skin, and attack the lungs. That is what escaped when the Liberty Ship John Harvey was bombed by the Luftwaffe in the Bari Italy harbor.

Then there is the American developed Lewisite; it smells like fresh cut geraniums, it slowly burns the skin, and also attacks the lungs.

Phosgene smells like new mown hay, and attacks the Lungs.

Chlorpicrin, smells sweet, sort of like fly-paper or honey. It attacks the lungs, and is heavier than air so when inhaled one must hang upside down to expel it (don’t ask me how I know this!).

The original Chloracetophenone (Tear Gas) smells much like apple-blossoms, but only causes eyes to water if it is used alone. It is also used as a "warning agent" in many lethal insecticide products.

So, how does one define "humane". A nano-second between life and death? (atomic blast and some nerve agents). Or the false belief you are smelling a pleasant aroma (some CWs) before you die?

Is it the radioactive death after an old "dirty" bomb, or the thought of a later cancer? Or is it the fear of burning which makes us so repulsed by fire weapons themselves, which are apparently only extremely painful in one non-lethal circumstance?

I personally would go for slow starvation by blockade as the least humane, then put death by radiation poisoning next. Followed by the "sneaky" chemical weapons which don’t announce themselves as dangerous initially, but kill you anyway.

 

The Germans were interestingly the victim of the first gas attack and its victim before they used it in France they experimented with using it on the Russians but it was so cold the liquid failed to disperse the conventional attack took the Russian position but suffered casualties when the spring thaw from their own gas.

The Germans lead in gas was well known by the British hence the demonstration of anthrax on the Hebridean island and the fact that it was disclosed to the Germans to have a look as a deterant. Some one bought the island and had the top soil burned off about ten years ago.

 

Napalm. sickening

 

forget the flame thrower, forget bullets, bayonets etc, the germans bitched to the geneva convention about the allies using trench guns, because the germans didn't have much of a chance against them! IT WAS WAR FOR GODS SAKE!!! But in saying that, what chance did the jews, POWs, political prisoners and so on have against the germans? not to mention the millions of unmentioned catholics also murdered by the germans. or how about all the innocent civillians murdered by the germans, not to forget that the germans also committed the same sort of war crimes in the first world war too! they hated the British, and were deliberately harsh and brutal towards British POWs. The germans have twice started wars for world domination, a fantasy from comics! in both wars they have broken all the rules of war and been murderous, lied to get what they want and broken treaty conditions etc.
so therefore i would say the most inumane weapon of war HAS to be THE GERMANS!

 

Its Ironic that we have laws governing war, where the objective is to kill another human being as quickly as possible and in such a manner that he can not kill you. War is simple really, Kill or be Killed. I believe that the Human is the most 'inhumane' weapon there is, as he is the master of the weapon, he is the designer of the weapon, he is the user of the weapon, and he has no objection to using the weapon on a fellow humane being - no matter what the consequences.

 

Easy the Flamethrower being burned alive is not fun.

 

I would say the flamethrower is the most inhumane, at least during World War 2. After the flamethrower, being run over by a tank is a horrific thought. On the Eastern Front, German slit trenches were grounded up by Soviet tanks. I haven't read or seen Germans doing such with their tanks, but I could bet they did. Either way, the thought of a flamethrower or a tank grinding a person to a pulp is a terrible thought. I remember a World War 2 vet telling me of a military training exercise they were conducting in the US. A tank made a a turn and ran over a soldier feet to head first. He told me it was the worst thing he had ever seen, even more so than his combat days in Europe. As for me, that story always stuck with me.

 

Biological weapons get my vote. In the 70's, my medical collegues and I during the long TACEVAL exercises came to a consensus as to our preference of all the nasties in NBC. We preferred to be hit with chemicals, nukes & fallout were next and biological frankly scared the bejesus out of us

 

Come now Jerome...no problem as long as you could get the noddy suit on in 9 seconds....then alls well with the world as long as you got warning there may be a bio attack....

But its the reason I wear my velcro green suit each and every day now...some think me mad....I'm just prepared...and a spare in my grey shoulder bag just in case....

 

You sound like the Sgt at my CIO - great food, fantastic pay and lots of travel. Well okay, he didn't lie about the travel - 6 postings in 9 years

 

I would have to go with a shoe mine, bouncing betty, pot mine. sneaky bastards don't see em and getting caught off guard is one of the worst things that can happen in a battle, and wither or not you would survive, the rest of the people that you are with would be scared shitless to walk around after that until the area was checked.

 

I would have to say the flamethrower is the single most large scale inhumane weapon. But I was also told by my grandfather that the Germans where known for putting strong piano wire up at neck level for the guys in jeeps. They also attached the potato masher grenades on them. They ran into it so much that they made a bar that went on the jeeps bumper to catch the wire before it got to them. I would say not only the decapitation or partial decapitation that would happen would be gruesome enough, let alone the the psychological effects on the survivors and witnesses.

 

did the japs not drop millions of infected flea,s ?,on the chinese population?,yuck.cheers..

 

And did I lie? You travelled...Got you a nice set of clothes to wear. Food to die for, a bed when you needed it...or we thought you needed it...discos every Thursday and Saturday..bring your own dog...cheep Naafi beer, fitness regime second to none...Did you give them the note I gave you saying you could do the BFT in trainers? Did it work?

Are you the Jerome that came in on a wet Monday in July....wanted to be a chef? Had city and guilds and A level...cheffery...cooked for royalty.....Did you manage to get the transfer from Tankie to Catering after the initial training period....Oh we did laugh....but got my numbers up....short of tankies that week...sorry if that was you...

 

Yes, that is the infamous Unit 731 to which you are referring. Those actions had the US "on guard" when the Fugo balloon bombs first showed up. It was thought it would be possible for these to deliver bubonic plague to cities on the west coast, and in consequence many tons of DDT, and Sulfanomide were stockpiled in the largest cities to combat the threat. Penicillin is ineffective against plague, but sulfanomide pills are effective to some degree. The tetracycline (sp?) which is the best was still in the labratory phase at the time.

If you google up Unit 731 there are some rather chilling reports on their actions. Unfortunately we (the allies) made a deal with many of its top "scientists" to keep them out of the war crimes trials, far east section, in exchange for their "expertise" concerning both chemical and biological weapons. The reasoning behind this being that the Red Army had captured the labs and many workers in the labs when they over-ran the territory the Japanese had held.

We were afraid that the Soviets might gain a leg up on us in this field if we didn't give the b&stards a deal. Poor decision on our part I feel. One of them Ishi (?) went on to become a wealthy Japanese businessman or something, and lived his life in comfort and security.

 

cheers clint,most imformative.

 

Flak 88 would be my imput here as I can't think riding a burning B-17 to the ground would be very fun also it's got shrapnel up the wazoo