Forced Sterilization in US

I agree...i luv a bit of too-ing and fro-ing!
Actually i think all people with criminal mental diseases should be locked up for good until a cure is found...simply letting them out still sick is to disregard the public's safety in the extreme. I think an eye for an eye is dead and buried...but sentences that represent and reflect the "injustice" to the victim is long overdue. People who are raped can feel trapped and unsafe for the rest of their lives...only FAIR that the perpetrator (no innocent victim) should receive the same.

 

We in the UK had a novel way of dealing with our miscreants at one time...Trouble is Cac might thow me a googly if I mention it..Then again I could be Australian if we still had the policy in force...Being Irish peasant leftie an all...begorah begorah..

 

How does sterilizing them stop them abusing a child, all it does is stop them fathering a child. It would not stop any urges or other ability's.

 

CAC has brought up a very important point........it is only the extreme cases that are institutionalized for serious mental illness, and the rest of the dangerous ones are allowed to be out pretty freely with only minimal supervision to see if they are taking their medications or not. Few people realize how the pendulum has swung on this matter. In the mid to late 1970's we began to realize in our institutions we were managing the lives of people who had been placed in institutions for such things as marital problems and even epilepsy which is not an illness of the mind. So as a knee jerk reaction almost all institutionalized people were allowed to be out as soon as it could be arranged. In my opinion, things have never gone back to any kind of happy medium for keeping those that should be institutionalized. I happened to have lived in a town where the state released a large number of dangerous individuals and know how bad it was for a few years until the criminal elements began to be jailed and removed somewhat from endangering others. We do not have a good system to date for taking care of dangerous people. Perhaps we are sometimes blaming crime on the criminal when we should be realizing that mentally unstable people are a big portion of the "criminal element" in our society today because there is little treatment or evaluation of these groups of mental illness cases. Most states do not have the capacity to keep the number of criminals imprisoned, so how much less is available for removing those with mental problems. We simply do not put enough money into those areas and that has turned our states into a veritable revolving door for minor crimes and DUI cases as well as those with mental problems. We have no place to keep them. I laugh sarcastically when a new governor promises longer terms for the DUI offenses as we have been in the same condition for years with a promise from previous governors that have already been there and done that, yet the revolving door over rides the length of sentences even for murder.

 

If the child isnt born, it cannot be abused, neglected. Prevention.

 

Best thing you mob ever did for us poor Irish...gave away your jewel...Now you all are lining up to come here...yeah NOW its all pretty and built!
And no spin for the English! You only get middle stumped anyway. No, its express pace all the way...we just white washed the Indians (and dont they look silly all white!)...You're next.

 

As we recently discussed how many untreated mental cases are on the street here is a story of one that completed his treatment so to speak, he could be in your neighborhood. Family fears at-large slaying suspect - The Santa Fe New Mexican

 

Personally, I don't care what happens to a child abuser and in most cases I don't think enough is done about them. However, the difference between them and us is the fact that we have some conscience about the things we do, and that is why we are having this discussion here, because we realize there are certain lines you just don't cross.

I work with abused and neglected children, I am a court appointed advocate, and I can tell you the thought has crossed my mind that something really should be done about some of these people. To give one brief example without abusing any confidentialies, I was advocating for one child whose mother was totally incapable of taking care of herself, let alone a child. She had the baby to "force" her boyfriend to stay with her, but the minute the baby was born he left her, so she didn't want the baby - until the state stepped in and when they tried to place the baby with a family, then both parents decided they wanted her and started fighting it. After two years of court dates and nonsense, they both terminated their parental rights. But in the meantime the mother got pregnant by someone else, a mean, nasty guy twice her age who beat her up while she was pregnant, and that baby was taken away. And the dad got someone else pregnant, his fourth child with as many women, all of which are in the child welfare system.

Believe me, I thought about the fact that these people are just going to keep going out and having more children and further burdening our already overburdened welfare system, and about all of the abuse and neglect and future problems facing their children. And I've wondered why something can't be done to keep having children.

But you only think it for a minute before sanity prevails and you realize all of the reasons why it should not be done, how it has, as has been mentioned, the potential for such abuse that it's just not a viable option. And it is just not a freedom that we have a right to take away. (There has to be another answer for all of the poor children continually born into this situation - I am afraid we just haven't quite found it yet.)

Note to USMCPrice: I am impressed with your strength and endurance. All they'd have to do to me is tie me to a chair and force me to watch a couple of hours of the Kardashians and I'd break, but you've endured waterboarding. I will try to stay on your good side.

 

Fortunately they didn't have the Kardashians back then or they could have made us all end up on the floor, crying, snivelling, and begging to tell all we know. In fact I don't think I could have taken 45 minutes of it, not a couple hours as you suggested.

Don't worry about staying on my good side, though we've never met you're one of my favorite people, a class act. You will always be on my good side! One of our earliest conversations was about your son, I admired your strength and attitude at the time. Everytime I read a post by you I think about him, what a fine young man he was and that it had to be because of how his mother raised him. The intellect, wit and just plain common sense you display in all your posts, continually reinforces this opinion. I only hope that if I am ever faced with such a situation that I will have one tenth the strength and dignity you display on a daily basis. You will always be on my good side, and I hope to always stay on yours.

 

Ah, I must give credit where it is due, my son was incredibly close to my father who along with being one our esteemed WWII veterans, is also an incredible human being. He always wanted to be like his grandfather, and they were two peas in a pod.

But nothing pleases a parent in my situation more than to have someone say they have remembered their child in some way. Thank you for that. I don't know that strength is the proper term, but I thank you for that as well. And I hope that you, my friend, are never faced with it.

BTW, I may have exaggerated my ability to withstand the Kardashians a bit. I didn't want to appear to be a complete washout.

 

That only works to stop them abusing etc their own children (and they would already have to have been born for that to happen, so a bit of a catch 22), many abusers are not the father of the children they abuse. Stepfathers, people who work with children, boyfriends, paedophiles.

Sterilisation only stops someone from having a child of their own, not any urges.

 

Let's add mother, stepmother, and girlfriends. The way it sounded only men are the abusers. Abuse is an equal opportunity CRIME. In many cases both adults are involved and at the very least the other adult is an enabler, knows it's going on, but because of whatever screw they have loose in their grape, they allow it to occur and make excuses.

Very true.

 

I had a friend in middle school who's stepmother came pretty close to abusing him. It wasn't physically, but sometimes the emotional abuse is just as bad.

Anyways, on the subject of steralization. I remember reading up on Theodore Roosevelt a while back, seems he supported the forced sterization of ciriminals and the insane. It rather bugged me to learn this.

 

In this threads first post the writer is surprised that the US and the NAZIS are linked by “forced sterilization”.

Not long ago I learned that the whole NAZI concept (re: the “master race”) was based on prominent US “progressive” thinkers - many of which our current administration have, or are still, praising. I believe it was called “eugenics”.

As abhorrent as forced sterilization and abortion seems ,the hard truth is that almost all of humanities problems would be greatly eased if we would control our own procreation.

There are just too many people in the world.

 

I don't really see this connection so could you elaborate a little bit.......as I think of progressives in the time of the birth of Nazi thought with people like John D. Rockefeller, Eugene Debs, Alice Paul, and Andrew Carnegie. Historically those were considered progressives, so what did they have to do with Eugenics? I am aware some of these people had some strange notions but not as extreme as the applied practice of Eugenics. I may need to study further however.

 

Women often "don't see" the abuse or choose not to believe their own child's claims of abuse because they are so desperate to hold onto the man in their life. I hate to use that term because there is the stereotype of a desperate woman clinging to her man, and while it is that, it is so much more. They are often frightened of the man themselves, or they can't cope with losing the "breadwinner" or being alone or they are dependent on them because of drug use. But whatever their reasons, the safety of our children HAS to be the first priority for all of us, so their reasons do not matter and I believe the enablers are as culpable as the offender.

But you are right, USMCPrice, there are no boundaries as to who abuses, they are male and female, rich and poor, and unfortunately they may be your clergy person or your child's teacher or the next door neighbor.

I think there is truth to what you say, muscogeemike, about the world population. I believe it's long been predicted that the population will exceed our planet's ability to sustain it. But, as you know, the problem comes from enforced sterilization, and the idea of taking away the freedom of choice for people, like us, who believe that choice is our right. And also the potential for misuse of that power - who decides on the criteria and how would it be determined. We can't even agree on global warming, I can't see us ever agreeing on any kind of voluntary global population control. Maybe the answer is in offering monetary reward for not pro-creating, such is the power of greed!

 

People have always thought there was too monay poeple in the world. Personally I don't see it. This planet and human inventions will sustain a lot more people then what we have today. And who is to decide to breeds? If a person is so concerned about the world's population "problem", then I suggest they stop breeding or simply "cease" to exist. You onle have one chance at life, then enjoy it. Now I know that I open a can of worms regarding the world population problem. And I know that Africa is starving, etc. But all I'm saying is each one of us only has one chance at life and tell me a time in history of man kind when the world wasn't falling apart.

 

I dont think anyone is as culpable as the offender.
I agree with your post though and nicely written too. The psychology behind these women is complex and varied...worth noting that the majority of people (ex-girlfriends) ive met who've been psychologicallty abused, were done so by their mothers...

 

Now this is sort of off topic, but sort of an interesting tid-bit none the less. For our European members, probably not much of a "news flash" but for myself it was. I don't quite understand the rationale behind the mandatory sterilization laws in 17 EU nations, I was surprised they existed.

Goto:

17 European Countries Force Transgender Sterilization (Map) | Mother Jones