What If the Dutch Received Some of the German Ships Sunk at Scapa Flow

Japan in 1931 borrowed money cheaply & then went off the gold standard early,which financed the IJN's expansion. by 1937 the military was consuming 70 % of the Japanese budget,takahashi proposed cut backs, and was asassinated.
https://www.google.ca/search?source....,cf.osb&fp=3d5a388d7a2217cd&biw=1366&bih=589

Shows no 1919 'massive drop ' for the Netherlands,axccording to Havard university. the academic studies cross corrolate.

 

Note PLS that part of the quotet highlighted by Patton says:

That leaves us with 3 choices:
1) A deliberate straw man.
2) You didn't really read what he posted.
3) You didn't understand what he posted.

 

I never said your source had was invalid. I merely said it did not show the full picture, which is true. I asked you to find where in the document it address the issues I brought up, and you chose not to. As I said, your document is a numerical analysis of the Dutch economy -- not an analysis of funding, attitudes, etc which is just as (and arguably more) important in a situation like this.

And FYI: I've quoted this source once before, and you never said anything. Which means you never read the other message in detail.

 

I never said there was a "massive drop", I said they emerged with economic problems. Many sources agree with this, even the GDP figures that you posted via that PDF document.

 

Alan, in 1919 , all of Europe had 'adjustment concerns'. the academic studies say the Netherlands was doing better than the rest of the pack, including the other neutrals.
a bolg site,on the other hand,is free to say whatever it wants- good,bad , indifferent.

 

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You raise a very good point! After 1936 Teh tropical commodities boom poured a lot of wealth into the NEI.
Pls read To Have and Have Not
Well written
Both Koolhoven & Fokker were badly shortchanged. thanks,Phlyo!

 

What "academic studies"? If you have them, post them. If not, find some. As I said in yet another message: "Your document states it was doing better than the surrounding countries -- of course, seeing as how each country bordering it was bogged down in a four year conflict."

What neutral countries are you talking about? Switzerland, for example, saw its Net National Income grow steadily from 3500 million swiss francs in 1913 to 6686 million swiss francs in 1919 despite severe economic hardships, the introduction of a war tax and a breif strike in 1918 (https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/00/05/05fa.pdf). Furthermore, Switzerland relatively quickly put reforms in place in 1918/1919. If you are reffering to the "NW Europe" statistics in your document, note that is is an average of several countries, including Germany and Austro-Hungary.

What it says is in line with other sources. For the final time, your document is purely a numerical analysis, which doesn't show the full picture.

I seriously suggest you read lwd's last message again. Pay attention to the second part:

 

Just Follow the links I posted . Alan. Left hand mouse click & reading glasses!
BTW, the blog you are quoting from is ok, -but it is still a blogsite.

 

"...What neutral countries are you talking about? Switzerland, for example, saw its Net National Income grow steadily from 3500 million swiss francs in 1913 to 6686 million swiss francs in 1919 despite severe economic hardships, the introduction of a war tax and a breif strike in 1918 (https://research.stlouisfed.org/publ...00/05/05fa.pdf). Furthermore, Switzerland relatively quickly put reforms in place in 1918/1919.."

Irrevelant , sez Seven of Nine..

Switzerland decided not to buy battlecruisers- for - other reasons.....

 

You posted one 55 page document that I will not read in its entirty (as I said before). If there is something that warrants particular attention, tell me what page it is on. I read about 10 pages of it. That's more than enough. As I've said four times now, "your document is purely a numerical analysis, which doesn't show the full picture." Your second link sent me to a page of google search results. Trying to figure out where your information came from via a page of search results is frankly a waste of my time.

Read my last message. I refuse to repeat myself over and over again.

 

????

 

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Plyto, you quote is off the Blogsite 'Waroverrholland' and is not accurate. The Netherlands had large gold reserves, which is why they made the mistake of staying on the gold standard in 1931-1936.

Ablog site can say ;anything'. always refer to a peer reviewed study.

You are right about Fokker. They had an excellent cost effective light fighter by 1935.

 

Since my comments are sometimes obtusely related to the subject I decided to post this one............as it was pointed out that the Dutch had some old ships that were coal fired it might be surprising to some that a lot of the "liberty ships" were taken from coal fired designs and a steam turbine was installed to be run on the fuel oil. Speed remained much the same as before perhaps increasing a little amount. Some of these ships were still being used in the 1970's. Very slow but economical cargo or troop transport for the day.

 

Since you obviously didn't read what I wrote, didn't understand what I wrote or don't care what I wrote, I'll make it very clear to you. Academic sources agree with what the "blogsite" wrote, plain and simple:

In fact, your document even agrees with this:

And just to make my point that many academic sources agree abundantly clear:

And

I should also add that the webmaster of the "blogsite" is a widely-quoted historian. Do a google search for the name "Allert Goossens". I should also point out that is isn't a "blogsite". The author has a "blog" on the site, but it is not connected with the page I quoted in any regard -- hence it is not a "blogsite". Also pay attention to: http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.php?page=sources

 

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"Irrelevant'sez Seven of Nine.
quote a study on gold reserves,& I'll look at it.

 

????

I posted no less than 4 academic sources. You haven't had time to read any of them.

 

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I looked .Nothing to do with the question at hand.

therefore irrelevant.I don't argue .

 

Nothing to do with what? You said the "holland at war" site was "invalid", these sources all agree with it. Now its "irrelevant"?

You've been making a point out of this for a while now:

 

Actually - no, it's not from that blogsite. Note how I actually "massaged" the Waroverholland quote! It's a rather condensed (!) precis of Richard Griffiths' "The Netherlands and the Gold Standard, 1931-1936", Amsterdam, 1987.

The government had other things to spend its annual revenues on - in 1931 a "corn law" was passed which forced importers of foreign corn to add a quantity of more expensive Dutch corn before sale, to boost domestic agriculture...but compensated for by the exchequer. Beginning in a number of "crisis laws" was issued to further subsidise the agricultural and shipping sectors, and to enable a measure of government control on import markets, export markets and capital flow. beginning in 1934 the Dutch government also started a Labour Fund provided subsidised workplaces for the unemployed, often on large-scale public works...which it ALSO had to fund!

The thing about remaining on the Gold Standard was...the government couldn't spend/sell its gold reserves! It had to hold on to them to back the Guilder It in effect was ringfenced by that particular policy.

In other words...as long as the Dutch government tried to remain on the Gold Standard along with a number of other European nations - the socalled "Gold Cartel" - its gold reserves weren't available, it had to use annual revenues and incomes to carry through its social support policies instead ....

And there was NOTHING available for OTHER big capital spends because while all this was going on, the Dutch government also pursued a 7-year policy of attempting to balance the budget I.E. no government borrowing!

 

the fourth choice is
"whatever...."