Map Coordinate Help Needed

Okay, here is my problem:

I am trying to convert map coordinates referenced in some of my grandfather's unit's Morning Reports to latitude/longitude, so that I can plug them in to Google Earth and pinpoint where they are located.

I have been familiarizing myself with the Modified British Coordinate System as found on this website (which seems to be a pretty popular reference for this kind of research):

Notes on the "Modified British System" used on the European Theatre of Operations during the WWII

The info there (mostly) makes sense to me, but I don't know how to translate the map coordinates from the Morning Reports into the MBCS, so that they can THEN be translated to lat/long.

Here is what I mean...

Morning Report says "Coordinates of new position are 6278-7028 sheet 107 N 1/25000 France and Belgium". I don't have access to the original map "sheet 107", but that is where the website's coordinate translator is supposed to come in, so that I don't need it in order to find the coordinates.

The MBCS system starts with two-letter grid coordinates, like vT, vQ, etc. (They should look like vT609691, for example.) The letters reference specific grid squares, so that you can start your search for the numerical coordinates in the right region. I don't have those though--just an 8 digit number. I know the coordinates I am interested in are in the Nord de Guerre Zone somewhere, but how can I translate the coordinates from the Morning Reports into the alphabetical grid system? It seems like I am missing the starting point, which is obviously pretty important! Is there a way to accomplish my goal without the original map?

Thanks for any help!

 

You need the Map

 

You definately need the map...Bit like nautical co ordinates...You have lat and long in numbers not the alfa versions. I recently did a home course on nautical navigation. Using admiralty charts..Easy...no alfa charts included...long and lats and triangulation. Its not rocket science. Maps willl be available.

 

The the boxes represented by the prefix letters are very large. If you know generally where his unit was (either from other histories or an occasional reference to a town by name) you should be able to guess at the prefix letters.

e.g. the 17th Airborne operations near Bastogne should fall into the VP prefix.

http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/article/nord_de_guerre.gif

 

That site doesn't work for me mate...is it just me or can someone else give it a go as that looks like a beaut tool.

 

Once I'm home I will check my maps for your coordinates Adambhoy, the onlinecoordinates converter is not 100% accurate, I discovered this comparing the results from the website with the results from the WWII maps!

 

Your coordinate is near the vilage of Vissoûle, to the south-east of Houffalize, approximatively a quarter of the way to the border with Luxembourg.

 

You will need to set the zone, add the prefix letters and chop the coordinate down to six digits, taking out the fourth and eighth digits.

Assuming his example came from the VP prefix:

From : 6278-7028

Nord de Guerre Zone
vP627702

Vissoule location sounds good for the 17th Airborne in January 1945.

 

Yep, second half of january 1945, on the 22nd the divisional I&R platoon had a first patrol entering Luxembourg at Haut Bellain.

 

I just checked my maps, I have sheets 121 and 122, they are to the south of the area you need, sorry! But you should manage with the online "translator" now.

 

Well done chaps...Again the forum works. Great help I'm sure.

 

AMAZING help, yes! Thanks so much. I am bummed that I can't just plug my coordinates into that online translator, but it sure is nice having you people as a reference instead! Thanks much.

 

If the "translator" doesn't work for you just put up a list with your coordinates and I will put them through the "translator" for you, I will post screenshots of the results.

 

Thank you Skylinedrive! I will do just that! ;o)

 

Well done gentlemen! This turned into a nice little tutorial of how to use the Coordinates Translator.

 

Well to complete the tutorial, in this case, we can check the result.

It's a poor scan of the period map but it is better than nothing. See attached.


One thing I did not mention was it would be more accurate to round the third and seventh digits.

Original: 6278-7028

Round: 628-703

Add prefix: vP628703


And thank you all for the adda-boy's, I live to be helpful.

And it was fun to work this with SKYLINEDRIVE

 

Just a little embelishment - you should remember that it is a box system and the figure quoted is the the South West corner.

Thus, assuming you have the six figure co-ordinate, the actual position can be anywhere in a box extending about 100yards North and East of the Long\Lat. This generally does not matter much for six figures but when only four are given the box extends to about 1000 yards North and East.

 

Belgium - 1:250,000 - 1:50,000 - 1937-44 - National Library of Scotland

If you have not already found this, it might be of interest. It overlays a map of Belgium in 1939-44 on top of the current google map. Can be interesting to see how the area has changed - your position I believe is just covered.

 

Okay, you asked for it! ;o)

Here is a list of all the coordinates I gleaned from the morning reports I have. I am beginning in January of 1945 when the battery first went into action during the Ardennes campaign. I am presenting them as direct quotes in their unedited form, so the subtle differences in formatting/possible misspellings are in the originals.

* "Moved from Houfalize to Slhoumont, Bel, coordinates 6278-7028 Vissoule, SE of Houfalize Sheet 107 N France/Bel"
* "Moved to 669-724Sheet 107 N France/Bel"
* "Limerle, Bel 707-749 Sheet 107 N France/Bel"
* "Hautbellen, Lux VE 744-744 Sheet 107 N France/Bel"

* "Eschweiler 729-551 Sheet 122 1:50,000 France/Bel"
* "Buckholz Lux 793-583 Sheet 122 1:50,000 France/Bel"

OPERATION VARSITY

* "coor. 2238-4444 Sheet 4305 1:25,000 Germany"
* "moved to 237-437 Sheet 4305"
* "moved to 271-415 Sheet 4305"
* "moved approx. 5000 yds forward to 321-431 Sheet 4305"

* "335-433 Sheet 4306"

* "424-448 Sheet 4307"

* "Haltern, Ger 611-493 Sheet 4209"

* "766-646 Sheet 4110"

* "Moved 5 mi forward to 847-697 Sheet 4011 1:25,000 Munster"
* "3 mi to 879-705 Sheet 4011"

* "421-252 Sheet 4407 1:25,000 Germany"
* "400-185 Sheet 4407"

* "Duisberg 361-162 Sheet 4506"

Any help would be great! I'd love modern GPS coordinates so I can plug it all into Google maps and reconstruct the route.

Cheers,
Adam