U.S. Carbine Cal. 30 M1.....

Good evening gentlemen,

I thought I'd contribute some of my knowledge and compiled information of my favorite weapon the U.S. Carbine Cal. 30 M1....

I own one and enjoy it immensely and find it to be one of the more underrated rifles of the Second World War. Perhaps not only by its knock-down power but the fact that its was more of a support troop personal weapon, rather than a full fleged rifle for the individuval rifle companies with the frontline infantry.

The particular U.S. Carbine Cal. 30 M1 that I own was manufactured by Quality Hardware Manufacturing Co. in January 1944. It holds the serial no. of 4799904. It is towards the end of the last batch of carbines manufactured by Quality Hardware Manufacturing Co..

Alright to the information!...

As the legend goes, the M1 Cabine gas system was developed by a convicted murderer while in prison and acquired by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. After his release from prison, the now ex-convict worked with Winchester engineers to develop a prototype which was accepted by the U.S. Army's Ordnance Department. The Army wanted to develop a light rifle to replace the Model 1911A1 pistol. They felt such a rifle would prove easier for the troops to shoot far more accurately than the pistol. As it turned out, the soldiers to whom .45 pistols were issued refused to give them up and demanded they also be issued the new M1 Carbine.

For once, the legend is essentialy true. The basic action of the M1 Carbine was developed by David Williams who really did carve a wooden model while serving a prison term. The essence of William's design was that gas bled from the barrel could drive a short piston with sufficent force to cycle a bolt in a semiautomatic firearm.

In the late 1930's, the Ordnance Department began the search for a light carbine-type long arm for combat support troops, officers and non-commissioned officers as a substitute for the Model 1911A1 pistol. On October 1940, the Ordnance Department issud proposed specifications to more than twenty-five companies and requested that they submit designs for the new carbine. Seven companies developed prototypes and submitted them the following May. They included Savage Arms Corporation, Woodhull Corporation, Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company, Harrington and Richardson Arms Company, Auto-Ordnance Company, Springfield Armory and Bendix Aviation Corporation.

Winchester as unable to provide test models for the initial firing trials because of other commitments. When the Ordnance Department was unable to select a design in May 1941, additional trials were set for mid-September. Their design staff now free of previous commitments, Winchester submitted the winning entry, based of the design of David Williams who was now an employee.

The M1 Carbine was adopted on October 22, 1941 and was subsequently used by every branch of the U.S. Armed Forces during World War II, the Korean War and by many units during the War in Vietnam. More than six million of the light, handy weapons were produced by ten major contractors supported by over 1,600 subcontractors, all in under four years. The effort involved in coordinating this production was an epic of industrial management rarely equaled since.

The original specifications called for a .30 caliber semiautomatic weapon weighing five pounds, a magazine capacity of 20 rounds and an effective range of 300 yards. The .30 caliber round was developed for the Ordnance Department by Winchester and was based on the .32 WRA Self Loading cartridge. The first production contracts were issued to Inland, a division of General Motors, and shortly after, to Winchester in November 1941. The first deliveries arrived seven months later in June 1942. Winchester followed in September with their first production shipment.

The M1 Carbine exceeded all Ordnance Department expectations and eventually, ten major contractors were involved in producing the weapon:

Inland(A division of General Motors)
Winchester Repeating Arms Company
Underwood-Elliot-Fisher Company(typewriters)
Rock-Ola Corporation(juke boxes)
Rochester Defense Corporation(became National Postal Meter)
Saginaw Steering Gear(A division of General Motors)
Quality Hardware Corporation
Standard Products Corporation
Irwin-Pedersen Arms Corporation
International Business Machines Corporation

The production effort was so successful-11,000 per day in mid-1943-that 6,200,000 carbines were produced by the time production ended in 1945. From mid-1944 on, all manufacturer's contracts but those for Inland and Winchester were canceled. Both of the original manufacturers continued in production until August, 1945.

There were ten manufacturers of the M1 Carbine and four official model designations that were placed in production. They were:

The standard M1 Carbine, a semiautomatic short rifle equipped with a fifteen round magazine(all manufacturers).

The M1A1 Carbine, identical to the M1 carbine except that it was equipped with a folding wire stock(Inland only).

The M2 Carbine, the M1 redesigned as a selective fire-semiautomatic or automatic mode-carbine(Inland and Winchester only).

The T3, later redesignated the M3, Carbine, and M1 or M2 Carbine equipped with an infrared illumination source and a telescopic sight with an infrared light filter for sniping at night(Inland and Winchester only).

During World War II all M1 Carbines were in one of either only two variations the M1 or the M1A1 Carbines. The M2 and M3 Carbines are post-World War II improved configurations of the M1 and M1A1 Carbines.

Now on to some common questions about the M1/M1A1 Carbines.

Q: Did the M1/M1A1 Carbines only have the rear flip-sight appature?

A: No. The early production contracted M1/M1A1 Carbines were outfitted with the rear-flip sight appature. However, those M1/M1A1 Carbines with serial no.'s starting at 4,200,000 were outfitted with the Type II and Type III adjustable rear sight appatures.

Q: How can I tell an early M1/M1A1 Carbine from a later manufactured M1/M1A1 Carbine?

A: Early M1/M1A1 Carbines naturally will have a low serial No., but, they have a couple of other early attributes, such as.: a Type I "I" cut stock, in early production where the oiler for the carbines is situated the groove is cut in the shape of an "I". Another attribute is the rear flip-sight appature and another early attribute is overall a "high wood" stock...the early "high wood" stocks have a 6" in. opening hiding, in part, the forward op-rod area. However, when they found that the barrels were getting hot due to extensive firing during combat they took a lot of the "high wood stock" of this early configuration and extended the op-rod groove to 10" in. Lastly the barrel band is narrow with only two weld spots and a milled sling loop.

Q: Did the M1/M1A1 Carbines have a place for bayonets?

A: Yes, they implemented the T4 bayonet lug(Type III barrel band)largely on M1/M1A1 Carbines of only Inland and Winchester manufacture. They first began implementing them on M1/M1A1 Carbines in mid-February 1945.

Q: Well, if they didn't implement them until mid-February 1945 what did they use if they didn't have a bayonet?

A: The U.S. Army having overlooked the aspect of a bayonet in their original specifications, to each soldier they issued a M1/M1A1 Carbine they issued also an M3 Fighting Knife to counter the problem.

Q: Was there a "stock pouch" for the M1/M1A1Carbine?

A: No. There was no "stock pouch" for the M1 Carbine. The advent of the so-called "stock pouch" is an M1/M1A1 Carbine pouch for the M-1936 pistol belt slipped over the stock during its reassembly stage. It was placed on the stocks of many M1/M1A1 Carbines by countess GI's to give them a place to store two more magazines. The U.S. Armed Forces never issued a "stock pouch" perse' for the M1/M1A1 Carbine.

Q: Did they have 30 round magazines for the M1/M1A1 Carbines during World War II?

A: No. The 30 round magazines for the M1/M1A1 Carbine didn't find their way to the U.S. Armed Forces until November 1945.

Q: How many stocks were used for the M1/M1A1 Carbines?

A: There are three. The Type I and Type II are of the "high wood" class. The Type I has the distinctive "I" cut for the oiler, the Type II which has the same dimensions as the Type I but, the oiler cut out is oval shaped. The Type III is the last of the World War II stocks and are of the "low wood" class and instead of having a 6" in. op-rod section they have a 10" in. op-rod section and it retains the oval shaped oiler cut out.

Q: For how long and how many M1A1 Carbines were produced for the U.S. Armed Forces?

A: The production run for the M1A1 Carbines began in late 1942 and ended in mid-1944 and, precisely some 140,000 M1A1 Carbines were produced by Inland.

[ 28. July 2006, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: MARNE ]

 

FYI, here are the individual production runs for both the M1 and M1A1 Carbines for each of the ten contractors(for WWII only):

Inland
Production(all models): 2,625,000
M1: 2,485,000
M1A1: 140,000

Winchester
Production(all models): 828,059
M1: 828,059

Underwood
Production(all models): 545,616
M1:545,616

Rock-Ola
Production(all models): 228,500
M1: 228,500

Quality Hardware
Production(all models): 359,666
M1: 359,666

Grand Rapids(Irwin-Pedersen/Saginaw)
Production(all models): 223,620
M1: 223,620

Saginaw Gear
Production(all models): 293,592
M1: 293,592

National Postal Meter
Production(all models): 413,017
M1: 413,017

Standard Products
Production(all models): 247,160
M1: 247,160

IBM
Production(all models): 346,500
M1: 346,500

Production Totals Overall: 6,110,730

Lastly, here are all of the blocks provided to each individual contrator by the U.S. Ordnance Department.

Inland
1 - 5
11 - 999,999
2,912,520 - 3,212,519
4,879,526 - 5,549,921
6,219,689 - 6,449,867
6,629,884 - 7,234,883
7,369,661 - 8,069,660

Winchester
6 - 10
1,000,000 - 1,349,999
4,075,000 - 4,075,009
5,549,922 - 5,834,618
6,449,868 - 6,629,883
7,234,884 - 7,369,660

Underwood
1,350,000 - 1,449,999
2,352,520 - 2,912,519
4,010,000 - 4,074,999
6,099,689 - 6,199,688

Rock-Ola
1,662,520 - 1,762,519
4,532,100 - 4,632,099
6,071,189 - 6,099,688
6,199,689 - 6,219,688

Quality Hardware
1,550,000 - 1,662,519
1,875,040 - 1,937,519
4,432,100 - 4,532,099
4,632,100 - 4,879,525

Grand Rapids(Irwin-Pedersen/Saginaw)
1,762,520 - 1,875,039
3,212,520 - 3,250,019

Saginaw Gear
3,250,020 - 3,651,519
5,834,619 - 6,071,188

National Postal Meter
1,450,000 - 1,549,999
1,937,520 - 1,982,519
4,075,010 - 4,432,099

Standard Products
1,982,520 - 2,352,519

IBM
3,651,520 - 4,009,999

**All information herein is from my self-knowledge and compiled from Craig Riesch's guide "U.S. M1 Carbines: Wartime Production". (4th Edition)

Craig Riesch's guide for collector's is the best you'll find out on the market for everything U.S. Carbine Cal. 30 M1. I highly recommend this book.

Well, this is all from me! I hope this helps anyone out wondering about M1/M1A1 Carbines and, I hope you enjoy the information. Its here for your use.

Enjoy!

Regards,
MARNE

PS. If you'd like the production numbers for the M2 and M3 Carbines PM me here at the forums and I will be more than happy to give them to you anytime...

[ 28. July 2006, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: MARNE ]

 

I find it fascinating that IBM is listed as a manufacturer(not questioning).

Interesting reading.

Later

 

Yeah, I know what you mean.

When I first started learning in particular about the M1/M1A1 Carbines, I found that IBM(International Business Machines Corporation) was a manufacturer that I thought to myself...

WOW! IBM goes back!...LOL...

Regards,
MARNE

 

That's not what I thought. I thought "WOW, an M1 Carbine's a business machine!?"

Later

 

IBM...wow, forst they make processing machines for the Nazis and then they decide to make Carbines for us...the tables turn...

 

Well, I guess they trying to change the old addage... "The customers always right!?"

Hence in their case before the war the customer was the Nazis!

Regards,
MARNE

 

Otto,

Please delete this post....

Regards,
MARNE

[ 29. July 2006, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: MARNE ]

 

Many thanks for the interesting postings, Marne - they prompted me to dig out my own long-neglected deact M1 carbine.

I've always thought the weapon to be under-rated ; many post-war authors have dismissed it as 'neither fish nor fowl', lacking the stopping power of a .45 Auto or the long-range accuracy of the M1 Garand.

But - in the right hands, and for close-combat - it could prove very effective. Its' low recoil and superb ergonomics made it very accurate for house-to-house fighting. It was highly-prized by British paratroops ( see the famous photo taken in the Hartenstein Hotel, Arnhem ) and it was also praised by Captain Shore in his classic 'With British Snipers To The Reich'.

Here's the low-down on mine...



And yes, pushing my macro lens to the limit, you can just make out who made the barrel.....



Swords to ploughshares, indeed....

 

Hey Martin,

That is a fine M1 Carbine! I sure am glad to see these old warhorses being saved from their demise even if they are deactivated. Its a fine example you have there.

Here are the photos of my own M1 Carbine. I attained this M1 Carbine by working it off or practically getting it for free so to speak. I worked six shows for a dealer out of Florida who sells practically nothing but, original WWII weapons of all nations. I worked for this one and was allowed to put all the trimmings on this M1 Carbine that I wanted if I so choosed which was really cool of the guy.

Heres the low-down on my U.S. M1 Carbine:

Type: U.S. Carbine Cal. 30 M1 (light semi-automatic rifle)
Manufacturer: Quality Hardware Manufacturing Corporation
Date of Manufacture: January 1944
Serial No. 4799904
Branch of Service: U.S. Marine Corps.

Heres the photos of my M1 Carbine.... I hope you enjoy them!!!

Full view without the fifteen round magazine w/ muzzle cover:


Full view with the fifteen round magazine w/o muzzle cover:


Full angle view of M1 Carbine No. 4799904:


Original U.S. GI Issue M1 Carbine Muzzle Cover w/ Victory Manufacturing Co. makers mark, dated 1944:


View of the barrel w/ manufacturers mark of Underwood, 1-44 dated, w/ U.S. Ordnance Bomb:


View of the op-rod/breach area:


View of the M1 Carbine Magazine pouch fixed to the stock, with the makers mark of G&R Co., 1943:


Regards,
MARNE

[ 29. July 2006, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: MARNE ]

 

Otto,

Please delete this posting...

Regards,
MARNE

 

Very nice indeed, Marne...yours has all the correct bits'n'pieces of webbing etc and has that real 'WWII' look ; mine unfortunately has the bayonet lug which was added post-war.

 

I would love to own a Carbine but it's not the weapon I would want to take into combat with me.

 

Thanks Martin!

Yours was probably part of a rebuild. Does your M1 Carbine have a "P" stamped into the pistol grip of it? If so thats the rebuild stamping.

My M1 was part of a rebuild but, only a couple part were replaced the rear sight and the magazine catch. The stock, handguard, and butt plate on mine aren't original. However, I was simply trying to find two REALLY nice stock pieces that would match up perfectly. So, I have a National Postal Meter "I" cut stock and an Inland handguard...but, it sure is purtty...LOL...

Regards,
MARNE

 

Hey Otto,

I'm sorry about these double posts this computer of mine is a pain in my butt, I don't aim for double postings but, they kind of just happen.

Please delete this posting....

Regards,
MARNE