Since there is still confusion in Florida...

as to who won what in a few cases, Obama was declared the winner and received the electoral votes thank goodness they were a non-factor. But I ran across this 'toon this morning and couldn't help but chuckle.

 

In an even worse case:

 

Florida will be remembered for a long time...

 

Al Gore is turning over at his desk, wherever it is.

I'll bet Florida was late in returning votes for the Election of 1864 as well....someone please prove this assumption as incorrect.

 

I don't know about Mr. Gore, but both he and Samuel Tilden lost the electoral votes of Florida while winning the popular vote nationally. As to the election of 1864 in Florida, that is silly. Florida wasn't readmitted to to Union until 1868 and so couldn't contribute. Hope you were just "funnin'".

 

I heard though they were desiring succession from the union ............... forming an all adult nude state ..........

 

There have been petitions signed in 21 states (I think) asking for secession from the Union, and/or creating new states by dividing the ones that exist in two sections. I think this was resolved in 1864, dream on goofs.

Goto:

Residents In More Than A Dozen States Petition White House To Secede From United States

 

as I mentioned we here in south Orygun would prefer to follow up with a new state incorporating part of northern Cali it is there desire as well and you would have to live in this area for 10 plus years to understand why. But as I have related several times on this site it has been attempted many times since the early 1960's............good luck !

 

Just curious why they send it to the White House.....is that a recognition of the authority of the Federal Government? Most secession petitions would more naturally go to the reps in their own state where a vote of secession could be attempted in their own state government. Perhaps if they pay up their share of the deficit their leaders created while in power at the national level their wishes could be considered. I for one think it was some of those states who had the power that created the deficit, and now want to brag on their balanced state budget. If we had NASA, defense contractors, FEMA help, more red cross activity, our state might be balanced in the budget too! Yes track the Federal Budget and see what states have their hands deepest into the National Budget money. Talk secession and watch the chickens come home to roost.

 

Well if Alabama secedes (again) I may skip the US North and move to Vancouver Island !!! LOL

GB

 

well it won't happen and if it did the states would take on their own tax liabilities and make some of the stupidest tax laws ever in existence, can imagine trying to travel from Oregon north into Washington or east into Nevada and paying a stateline tax to cross borders, etc., etc. . . . . . . the concept is not out of the question

 

The biggest problem the Confederacy had (of the many) was they couldn't get recognition from other nations. Without recognition they were "islands" dependent on themselves for everything, and they couldn't cover the problems. How would these "independent" states exist in that vacuum? Just outright nonsense of the first water.

 

But that problem would have gone away if the North had let them go or they had won the ACW so it's hardly an argument vs independence.

 

I fail to see that happening, since Lincoln was elected (without a single electoral vote from the south) to save the Union. Not slavery abolition, although that became intertwined with the war in the end. When you cannot be recognized by outside nations, you really don't "exist". An agrarian society, without even standardized rail systems is going to be hard put to fight an industrial powerhouse with interconnected rail, and telegraph systems. It took Jeff Davis nearly three weeks to get from his home to Richmond to take over his position as president. Why? Because none of the rail systems interconnected with each other or used the same gauge in some instances. Most ran east/west or north/south from the interior to the coasts, but didn't connect with each other. The south was doomed to loose a protracted war, and double doomed when outside recognition failed to materialize.

Britain flat refused to see the two men sent to ask for British recognition (Slidell and some other guy), as did France. I'm not sure about Spain, but France wanted to stay out of it since Napoleon III had his sights set on establishing a new government under Maximillian in Mexico, and expanding the French colonial impact while the US was otherwise occupied.

 

Indeed Lincoln wasn't going to let it happen in 64 but that's irrelevant if you are talking about the long term stability of the CSA or a more modern sessionist state. The British and French would have been happy to recognise the CSA in the absence of the ACW.

 

But Fort Sumter was fired upon before Lincoln even got anything going, and the vote for session was taken by some states before he was inaugurated. The British were more than willing to wait and see who won. They weren't going to involve themselves in another war (Crimea was just settled) until a better picture emerged as to which side was going to prevail. The ACW was simply going to exist, and cannot be ignored or sidelined.

 

I don't see how this is particularly relevant.

As were the French, hardly the point however.

Once Lincoln was elected you are probably correct. If someone else is it's not so clear, particularly when you remember that some of the Northern states had talked sesseion in previous decades. But in any case it's irrelevant to the point that lack of foreign recognition was a temporary state that was dependent on the war. If states wanted to sesseed now and it was acomplished one way or another foreign reconition would not be long in coming. The example of the USSR is pretty clear.

 

I think you are forgetting that two of the largest of the member states of the USSR held seats in the general assembly at the end of WW2. So were already recognized globally, then with the breakup of the USSR, they went through the whole business of remaining a "sort of state" as the Confederacy of Independent States (CIS), before disbanding completely.

Stalin actually wanted all 16 Soviet Republics recognized in the General Assembly, but settled for the USSR as a whole in both the General Assembly and on the Security Council, with both the Ukraine and Belorussia in the General Assembly. Not a good analogy for this discussion really as they transitioned not because of war, but the dissolution of the USSR as a whole due to economic flaws in the system of communism.

And don't forget that this also separates the breakup of the USSR from the ACW, inthe spring of 1991, shortly after a previous subservient state (Lituania) declared its independence from the USSR. Shortly thereafter, in early 1991 a nationwide referendum was held in the USSR itself in which 78% of the vote granted the right to secede to all other republics within the USSR. A 78% referendum vote is quite a bit different from starting a war to secede from a union.