Free Military Quiz

Both of you are on same track. I will leave it for Monday. It is a classic comment.

 

The answer is:

The General was: Hasso von Manteuffel.

The book I have this in doesnt have what Manteuffel said.

 

Well, it was obviously Hasso von Manteuffel, but I do not have his comment either...

 

Hmm. Interesting. I am looking at Cornelius Ryan's The Last Battle p477. After Heinrici says "as long as I am in command, I will not issue that order to von Manteuffel." von Manteuffel adds "Marshal Keitel, the 3rd Pz Armee listens to General Hasso von Manteuffel." Talk about brass balls!

Since Friedrich got the three names first, I think it is his turn.

 

Thanks, my friend! I tried...

Well, the question is here:

Name in what is based the concept of a self-sufficient combat unit, what we now call a division.

Name the first in History to develop and use this concept and then name the person who first applied it in Europe after a long time.

I know it can sound weird, but ask me if you have any doubts.

 

For someone like Manteuffel to stand up against Hitlers Lacky like that--he indeed had also of Brass. I always did like Manteuffel--but do more so now.

 

Anyone? He, I think I'd have to come back with a WWII question... I bet you can't answer it...

 

Actually Friedrich-I can defineltey answer It-please give me just a few minutes to get my notes...

 

Finally! Gotcha!

However, as armies grew, this system proved cumbersome, Under Napoleon, the French army began to break up into smaller units, each of which was an independent mini-army consistmg of infantry, cavalry and artillery and capable of doing battle on its own.

These French formations were of varying size, and their makeup was never standardized. However, Napoleon's British archrival, the Duke of Wellington (who in his long career never lost a battle) adopted this idea of mini-armies and created a standardized unit called the division. British divisions, being complete units, could be detached to fight as self-sufficient units, combined to form larger units, and interchanged. For example, a rested reserve division could replace a fatigued division in combat

I´d say the battle was Waterloo.The man was Duke of Wellington.And he got the idea from French.

 

Kai

Divisions were not a British invention by any means!

The usual 18th century formation of Wing.Division.Brigade was pretty well standardised. Wellington was still an 18th century general who did not adopt a Corps system until 1815! Indeed at Talavera in 1809 there wasn't even a divisional system. The Russians, organisationally, were on a permanent Divisional establishment through Barclay's 1807 reforms, with two divisions making up a corps. Unlike the French the Russian Corps contained no permanent attached cavalry, this was in cavalry corps.

The Prussians in 1813-1814 didn't have divisions at all, but 4 large brigades making up a corps. The Austrians had divisions early on, and introduced a Corps system in 1809.

Jumbo

 

Ok, thanx Jumbo! The net just doing its tricks on me again...Well, it sounded too good to be true anyway, all the puzzle pieces fitting nicely.Like a big battle and getting the idea from French...

 

Doing VERY good, gentlemen!!! Actually, I have to say that Kai is correct about Napoleon and the Frenchs. So, the 2nd part of my question is answered. But the 1st and most important one is missing...

 

And I know that Rommel prided himself on running his beloved Afrika Korps as such a unit!!!

 

Well, this time a bit more careful approach...Rumyantsev?? ( thanx for the tip, Jumbo ).

"Administrative reforms initiated under Catherine the Great created an infrastructure designed to maintain the army in a state of reasonable readiness in times of peace by maintaining the regiments closer to the borders where they would be needed. The first organizational reform was enacted in 14 January 1763. This organized the army into eight military districts called “divisions” (divisyi) with all regiments assigned to these divisions."

From

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/c_rusorg3.html

and don´t forget..Mr Kutuzov!

http://www.sunbirds.com/lacquer/box/770270

The attacks on both sides of Kursk by Russians after Citadel...You are trying to teach us history, Friedrich, aren´t you??? Well, I noticed that.

 

I am sorry, Kai. The Russians have nothing to do with it...

No, I am not trying to teach you History...

A clue: Go back a "few" years and more Southwest from Russia.

 

I checked Prussia, Austria and Poland, as I knew Poland was quite a big country back then. The Swedes were huge as well, did you know that? And we Finns were there ( of course ...). There are loads of Middle European church altars in Finnish churches, those wicked thieves...

Anyway, back to business. This one goes quite along way back, but Poles had it?? No definite name though. http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/Army.html

OK, give us the answer and a new question!

 

I checked Prussia, Austria and Poland, as I knew Poland was quite a big country back then. The Swedes were huge as well, did you know that? And we Finns were there ( of course ...). There are loads of Middle European church altars in Finnish churches, those wicked thieves...

Anyway, back to business. This one goes quite along way back, but Poles had it?? No definite name though. http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/Army.html

OK, give us the answer and a new question!

 

With respect Friedrich, this is all a bit open to interpretation. We could go as far back as the Roman Legions to look at self-contained units with integral cavalry and artillery! Who knows, maybe some Egyptian or Babylonian ruler had a similar idea?

What about the Ottoman Turks, the went through hosts of ideas, but remained militarily stuck in the 17th Century.

The word "Division" could just be that: a part of an army. Equally the word Corps (d'Armee?) is bandied about to mean anything from a small body of men to a large body of men. We look fondly at Berthier's system but most countries didn't adopt it and kept cavalry seperate.

I don't think Catherine's reforms meant for the "Divisions" to take the field together, but were administrative - becoming the "Inspections" of Peter II. Barclay I think was the first modern War Minister to detail regiments to divisions which were going to fight in war during peacetime. He even had the divisional numbers put on the shoulder strap.

Although because he was Scots-German later Russian historians have liked to play down his role in favour of Kutusov (who Alexander hated) or Bagration (who hated Barclay as a foreigner), Barclay was one of the more capable allied Generals of the wars against Napoleon.

So my cash is still on Barclay.

Jumbo

 

Actually Jumbo got it (but not quite well) in his first lines. I would have given it to him, but he went with the Russians... Just read his first lines and there you go!

 

I suppose I need to come up with a question.

Whose portrait photograph unusually adorned Hitlers Bunker in a place which many members of his staff assumed would have been occupied by his Father?

Jumbo