It's over boys!

Thread introduction is with those terms....Lambs and the Lions.....no definition...........just the label of description that is now accepted parlance for the discussion. Personally I hate labels like that.........however useful. I may not be beyond having to stretch myself to accept all kinds of people we may have today entering military service, I am no angel there....I carry all the baggage anyone else may have but whether we like it or not we are going to have these elements to deal with: our regular gendered personnel we always had, mostly heterosexual, now also homosexual personnel, now also bi-sexual personnel....and those are the ones we all know we have always had in the military legal or not. Now that we had our label system going that started the thread....guess what we are going to have also gender switched individuals to include,..........so where are you going to place them? What rules are they going to have applied? Like it or not, there is going to have to be made rules that apply to all..........the only fair way. Will there be problems? Of course. Somewhere for everyone to be comfortable......we will have to accommodate yes the bad word "accommodate" all the changes for every one to be comfortable. The fact is we have had all these types around us all of our lives.....we are just unable to admit it to ourselves because we "create" the reality in our mind instead of facing what is there. It is a healthy thing that we begin to face things!

 

This is all good and well...but the battlefield is like no other office in the world...reality meets philosphy...guess which one wins...

 

No I won't venture the guess....you explain it because I do not understand what you are explaining there, sorry.

 

No, it requires a tremendous number of skill sets and knowledge in a wide range of subjects. Unfortunately, most of the time movement is by foot and especially given the mountainous terrain in Afghanistan a lot of that is uphill and in extreme hot and cold temperatures. All the things you need to survive and fight must be carried and the individual infantryman is the pack mule. You also need to be able to fight and maneuver carrying all this stuff. Climb walls leap across ditches, run, crawl, pull yourself up and through windows, and on and on. All require strength and stamina in addition to everything else. Water is a good example, in a desert environment a minimum of four gallons per man per day is required for drinking to prevent dehydrations. So each man on a one day patrol will be carrying 33.5 lbs of water alone, then factor in the weight of the personal weapons, a minimum of 210 rounds for the same, at leat 6 mags to hold the ammo, pouches for the mags, squad ammunition both belted for the machinegun and a mortar round or two for the 60mm mortar, grendaes, food, helmet, plate carrier, ESAPI plates, web gear, poncho, sleeping bag, IFAC (individual 1st aid kit), food, extra clothing items, etc. you get the idea.

 

Here with the State Police Training Academy there is this unofficial thing called "protected classes" that is used when one of the minorities that I listed earlier (racial minority, females, female minorities) are at a point where the average white male would be washed out. The instructor over the cadets in question are cautiously reminded in an undocumented closed door session that they are "protected classes" and should be re-trained and re-tested and retained if absolutely possible at all costs to avoid legislative and legal ramifications lest the program and instructors be "looked into" for possible racial overtones. Very few of those cadets were sent home. When that program started I concluded my last assignment as an adjunct instructor there (2005). I don't see anything that will be much different with the federal government along those lines

 

Surely awards for drone pilots isn't that absurd, with the way the battlefield has changed. Armies have gotten drastically smaller, military equipment gets more expensive and more advanced, and we seek to keep our own out of the line of fire, while pouring more on the enemy whenever it is possible. As more countries modernize their military, I would think that the amount of persons assigned to these non-combat-combat roles will also increase in time. The points where friendlies get offed by drones are certainly well known, but is has to be considered that one has to be very skilled at controlling these machines in order to use them in combat situations. I imagine there are more then enough US soldiers who would happily buy a drink for their "guardian angel" overhead who most certainly saves lives. It might seem silly, to give medals to people in non-combat roles, but it is also quite silly to caricature what they do as them being the cliché'd nerd as that comic might portray.

 

I agree in principle, but the core of the objections, if I have made any sense of this thread, is that there are already awards for non-direct combat meritorious service and the order of precedence these new awards will take over established combat awards.

 

Welcome to the 21st Century. Have been alluding to all this for long time. Am quite prevelant in my objections to how the RAF has changed in its progress to UAV operations. And have been airing both written and in person my and others objections to the way things are planned in the UK. The danger not only to the RAF and RN but also to the civilians when the war on terror appears in a shopping arcade in Lincoln. One only has to disect the supposed austerity cuts in UK MOD being made in the guise of austerity, one will notice the equipment budget not being touched but the personnel budget once more about to be decimated to a point of no return.

I love the bit Pricey quotes about uav pilot operating out of an undisclosed area in Nevada? Does any one really not know where it is? The RAF have their own cabins there. Maybe they don't want the general public in America to share the same information their and my militaries freely give out on a daily basis.

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread...the drone medal would be "ranked" above a meritorious Bronze Star, below a valorous award.

 

Yes it was, early on. That's the major part of the silliness of the measure. The other part is having such a medal at all.

 

Bobby is correct. The initial and still current proposal is to rank it above both the Bronze Star with or without the "V" for valor device and the Purple Heart. At present the Pentagon has not changed its mind. Legislation has been proposed to counter this. The Bronze Star is a combat award, either for heroic acts or superior meritorious service in the combat zone.
No matter how "distinguished" the Cyber action that the new medal would be awarded for, the recipient was not putting their life on the line.

"Military planners have said the medal will rank immediately below the Distinguished Flying Cross – higher than the Bronze Star and Purple Heart, awards given for direct battlefield heroism."
Stars and Stripes
"The new Distinguished Warfare Medal, announced on Feb. 13, will rank just below the Distinguished Flying Cross in the military’s official “order of precedence.” That means it will technically rank higher, and be worn on a uniform above, the Bronze Star with V device, which honors heroic conduct on the battlefield, as well as the Purple Heart, which is awarded to troops who are injured in battle."
Army Times

"A trio of Republican lawmakers moved Tuesday to prevent the Defense Department from establishing the Distinguished Warfare Medal for drone operators as an award that ranks higher than the Bronze Star or Purple Heart.
Reps. Duncan Hunter of California, Timothy Murphy of Pennsylvania and Tom Rooney of Florida, introduced H.R. 833,.."

 

There should be something to recognize a drop pilot's contribution to the battlefield, because like it or not the drone is becoming a larger part of military operations. To recognize the operators isn't a bad thing...it is just a horrible thing to put those contributions above, or even on par, of those that are facing actual combat. From what I've been reading, there is a good chance that this will never see the light of day, at least not in the current way it is written. I think in the end, you will see a much downgraded award, if it ever comes into play at all.

 

Well our boys and girls share your cabins in Nevada, this should be interesting in the difference in awards...In Uk, I would not give them anything more than a commanding officers commendation for a job well done. Its for the int annalysts and the phot recce chaps as well I take it. The cabin is shared..The pics are annalysed at Molesworth, the data at Digby, and the comms via Corsham and Oakhanger to States...the amount of staff in the nano seconds it takes to do anything is both civilian and military and immense in numbers...give it to the pilots then give it to the annalysts who say go no go the annalyst who looks at the pics and the comms sigint guys who may get the initial contact info. The pilot I'm afraid is skilled but only the jockey...He makes no strategic decisions.

 

This does look like a much more sensible solution/approach to recognizing outstanding service rather than a separate medal. Good move Mr. Hagel.

 

I can just see the awards ceremony (now that it is over)......here is your award for outstanding drone performance through the holiday weekend blah blah blah.............but the reply is "but sir, it was the holiday and the English challenged us to a card game at the Casino so we put the drones all on ...autopilot".

 

Hah....Victor...that is the plan....Swarms....on automatic intelligence....Its mentioned many times in MOD UK documentation for the future...Then we will be presenting medals and awards to an IBM pentium chip....Probably give them a star...to stick on top of psu.

 

Xbox would win best supporting player....Behind every good drone flyer, there is a good Xbox...Funny bit VG.