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Daily Luftwaffe Sorties in the French Campaign

Discussion in 'Air War in Western Europe 1939 - 1945' started by gajabhau, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    I would like to know the number of sorties made by the Luftwaffe on each day from May 10 to June 1, 1940, on the western front, preferably in separate figures for fighters and bombers.
     
  2. higge

    higge Member

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    Hello and welcome to forums.

    Unfortunately I don't have an answer to your question but maybe Arneken or someone else have more facts about this.
     
  3. higge

    higge Member

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  4. Cate Blanchett

    Cate Blanchett recruit

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    Good Evening...
    Just looking at you request.....May-June of 1940 was a peak period of activity for the Luftwaffe. It is smack in the middle of the Battle for France, and was a time when co-ordination between Das Heer and Lufwaffe was at it's peak as well. It's a very interesting time for researchers......What is the interest in this particular period of Luftwaffe operations?
     
  5. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    I am studying the campaign for some time and I think that the number of sorties made is the best measure of air effort and of efficiency.I have read or consulted a few books on the topic but nowhere have I found this data. Also, I have posted this request on three other sites but have had no luck so far. I believe such quantification would reflect the fact of German air superiority - or should I say air supremacy - during the campaign in a far better and realistic manner than vague, even if lively, descriptions. In fact, such data ought to be given in the narratives of every campaign in which air power has played an important role. I live far away at the other end of the world and it is extremely difficult for me to get access to relevent data, but I do hope that someone would answer my question.
     
  6. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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  7. Gothard

    Gothard New Member

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    I can give you the sortie information - I recently got some good reference. I really don't understand the logic though - Sorties don't really make a lot of difference when counted alone. The luftwaffes performance in the French Campaign while succesful was badly mismanaged. The design of lutwaffe airframes led to limited range and a greater exposure to groundfire - that led to a dramatic loss rate. Couple that with the Germans desperate lack of trained aircrew and spare parts, low quality aviation fuel and obsolete and poorly designed planes you get a bad picture of their efficiency. The flak arm played a pivotal role in the French campaign - much more so than in other campaigns. The French situation was even worse as regards training but the planes were more modern.
    The british airforce was the best in the world pound for pound but the quality sacrificed quantity and they were forced to throw in a lot of obsolete planes as well. Allied planes were designed for level bombing and were effective in the inderdiction role but when forced to attack pinpoint targets - the long low bombing runs needed proved fatal in the face of german flak. Once again - the sortie rate gives a figure of turnaround - the advancing army ( German in this case ) is naturally at a disadvantage due to displacement, whereas the defender is using prepared peacetime airfields and a solid replacement depot arrangement. The Spanish Civil War and the Polish campaigns brought out the glaring weaknesses of the Luftwaffe and none of the issues were addressed by the time of the French Campaign. I beleive the Germans had a total of 268 Modern, first line aircraft going in. The German Airforce operated at 5 distinct levels. The first - Largest and most important force was the light divebomber/recon/ground support aircraft attached to the Army commands. This was a huge error and cost the germans dearly as these slow/weak planes were attritioned quite rapidly. THe second force was the Heavy dive bomber - this was used enmasse as concentrated artillery with fighter escort - again heavy casualties due to the proximity of enemy air defenses and the need to close with ground targets. The 3rd was the medium bomber force which was responsible for counter air and interdiction - the Polish campaign had really shaken up the germans - the tactical plan up to 1939 had been a massive strike to destroy enemy air power. The Polish had hidden their planes. In 1940 the situation was much different, the germans clearly hadnt learned when they launched Barbarossa. In the french campaign the key was inderdiction and providing cover for a rapidly advancing armor force. This meant spreading out into small groups and exposed the bombers to enemy attack. The 4th group was the heavy fighters which accompanied the bombers and their role naturally led to them engaging much faster fighters at a numerical disadvantage. Casualties were high here as well. The last group was the german fighter force whose job was to maintain air superiority and cover the heavy dive bombers - they did this remarkably well despite being forced to fight at lower than optimum altitudes.

    The fighters had a higher sortie rate than for instance the stukas or the heavy fighters.
    German bombers were designed for diving attacks and took considerable damage - add to that unreliable engines - weak octane fuel and pathetic range and bombloads as well as untrained crews flying in and out of unfamiliar/ damaged airfields under major combat stress and youll see that sortie rates will suffer. Allied planes generally flew higher and had heavier bomb loads.

    Looking at the 30 days or so prior to the offensice in the west -you will see a huge increase in operational rates - % of total force on operational status compared to that at the start of the war. I would use this number rather than sorties to determine efficiency.

    For Instance by June the french were running at about 25-30% Operational due to Industry shortages despite an overall numerical increase of approx 5% despite losses. The Germans were running at Approx. 70% Operational despite a strength decrease of 25 -36% of their total force due to losses/damage.
     
  8. Cate Blanchett

    Cate Blanchett recruit

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    Well.....I must say that this is certainly a VERY different picture of The Luftwaffe than given generally. Considering Gotthard's talent for tracking German info, I will most certainly be looking at their operations with a more critical eye to detail in the furture.
     
  9. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    Thanks Mr. Gothard. I do agree with you on several points. I am not saying that the number of sorties is the only important factor. But I do believe that it is one of the factors worth knowing. I would be obliged if you would give me the information I have requested, viz. the number of sorties made by the Luftwaffe on each day during the period May 10 to June 1, 1940, preferably in separate figures for fighters and bombers, and, if possible, with sources.
     
  10. Gothard

    Gothard New Member

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    I realy don't like presenting that kind of specifics on a forum - If you want me to research for a publication you want to produce you need to let me know - Without credit I would'nt undertake it - I type slow and have other projects that have higher priorities. I use the Forums to throw out my theories and discuss them - possibly learn enough to generate new theories. Not to write everyone elses books =). If it's a personal Project of yours I would love to take part in a collective effort - but again I don't like being sourced.
     
  11. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    Thanks Mr. Gothard. I intend to write a book on the French campaign. When I would be able to finish it I cannot say, because I have other work on hand. The book would be in Marathi language, which is my mothertongue. It is the language of Maharashtra State ( capital - Mumbai, fomerly known as Bombay ) in India. If anyone gives me any kind of information I would of course acknowledge it and give credit to him. In the Marathi language sale of books is very low. A book is regarded as successful if one thousand ( yes 1000/-) copies of it are sold in three years. So I would not be able to pay a large amount ( by European or American standard ) for obtaining information. I am willing to work in collaboration ( of course for an English work ) or to join in a collective effort. I am willing to post all the information which I have collected so far (including excellent maps) in this forum. But it will take some time because, as I have said, I have other work on hand, and I too type very slowly. So I have explained everything which you might want to know. The ball is in your court now.
     
  12. Gothard

    Gothard New Member

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    Ah ! I understand now - I imagine it's a bt harder for you to find those kind of numbers- I work about 70 hours a week so I'm a bit squeezed for tme -i will however make sure You're my top priority and will start scraping up the numbers asap and getting em posted - I'm pleased to know theres an interest in your region - it's really hard to find local sources for your area and I may have you return the favour some day =)
     
  13. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    Thanks a lot Mr. Gothard. This is the first encouraging reply which I have received on this request. Let me know anything where I can be of any assistance or help to you.
     
  14. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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  15. Gothard

    Gothard New Member

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    http://ersatzheere.com/battle_for_france.htm Just keeping you informed - I've started on the project and it will be progressing slowly - I add a little each day so check the Url every now and then and let me know what you need added. Photos, etc.. are copyrighted - I'm pulling them off websites so try not to use them in publications - theyre just here to keep me focused as I go I'll put in credited photos - theyre on a seperate page I'm using simultaneously for content.
     
  16. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    Thanks Mr. Gothard. I shall watch the site mentioned by you every altrenate day. And, of course, I shall not use anything without proper permission.
     
  17. arneken

    arneken Member

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    i'll have to look up but I can give you some details about the activitity at the airfield of Wevelgem-Bissegem. I don't think that allot of fighters took up from there 'cause Wevelgem became highly active around 1941. If I have time I'll look it up for you.
     
  18. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    Thanks, Arneken. Please give whatever details you can give when you find time.
     
  19. gajabhau

    gajabhau Junior Member

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    Thanks, Mr. Gothard, for the information provided by you so far (for 27 May to 2 June, 1940) in the Url cited by you. This is just to request you, as you have asked me to do, to add the information for at least a few more days, starting from 16 May 1940. I did not do so earlier only because I am aware that you have other work on hand and I do not want to bother you unnecessorily. Thanks in advance and regards.
     
  20. Cate Blanchett

    Cate Blanchett recruit

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    Gothard is a tireless researcher.....

    He deserves our many thanks....

    Thumbs up mate!
     

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