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Anzio/Nettuno

Discussion in 'WWII Today' started by kerrd5, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. kerrd5

    kerrd5 Ace

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    From the New York Times, 21 January 2014:

    "NETTUNO, Italy — The landing of Allied forces 70 years ago who went on to liberate Rome in World War II is now the focus of a conflict between two seaside towns over which one has the right to commemorate the event.

    "In the early hours of Jan. 22, 1944, the American Third Infantry Division landed at a seafront site in Nettuno code-named X-Ray Beach, as other American and British troops landed on nearby beaches in Anzio. In the decades since, the Anzio beachhead was engraved in history books as the main landing site.

    "For decades, the two towns jointly commemorated the landing. But this year for the first time, whether seeking to correct what they say is a historical slight or to promote their town to lure tourist dollars, the authorities in Nettuno have decided to stake a claim to the memory of the landing and mark the occasion separately by promoting X-Ray Beach."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/22/world/europe/wartime-claim-to-fame-divides-2-italian-towns.html?hp



    Dave
     
  2. merdiolu

    merdiolu Member

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    I have my own conclusion about Shingle but I am not sure if it is controversial or not. Given the limited sea lifting capabilities (most of the landing crafts and LST tank transports would be deployed to Britain soon for Overlord) and rapid German response do you think General Lucas cmdr of VI. Corps took the right decision to fortify beachead before advancing inland ? Churchill later called this whole operation (his brainchild) a beached whale but forces landed to Anzio Nettuno on 23rd were not numerous or strong enough to march on Rome maybe though Alban hills looking down to Anzio should have been captured immedietely...
     
  3. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    They didn't have the strength to advance to Rome, nor should that have been the objective, either on landing or in the breakout five months later. In either case the goal should have been to advance to the hills, a relatively short distance inland from the beaches, and threaten to cut off the German troops around Cassino.
     
  4. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Rome was a useless objective, agreed. It was a symbol of no military importance. Clark got a lot of credit for a useless objective. Thousands of brave men perished for that city and it should have been avoided.
     
  5. namvet

    namvet Member

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    my late dad's cruiser fought there. i recently found out his ship collided with another trying to evade falling bombs
     
  6. Owen

    Owen O

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    A place I wanted to visit for many years.
    Finally got there back in 2008.
     
  7. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    I'd like to challenge the view that the Italian campaign general and Anzio in particular were disasters or a pointless loss of life. .

    The Italian campaign was the second front, in a theatre of operation that allowed a modest allied force to engage an army group of Germans away from away from their no1 priority for 1944, NW Europe. To that aim it was a success, as on D Day 6th June the Germans had over 20 divisions in Italy and on 5th June an German infantry division was entraining from Northern France to Italy. Had the Germans had 70 rather than 50 Divisions in France it is very unlikely that Op overlord could have succeeded. Had the Italian campaign not happened,it would have had no impact on the rate at which the allies could ave landed in France - a function of shipping capacity.


    The Italian campagn had tp be pursued with enough vigour for the Germans to treat it seriously. In that sense it did not matter that Mark Clarks' objective was Rome rather than destroying the Germans. (Though dead germans did matter more than Rome)

    It is debatable whether the Anzio operation could have unblocked the route to Rome. The intention was to force the Germans out of the Gustav Line, which is unlikely to have been possible unless the January battles on the 5th Army front had been much better co-ordinated and more troops brought across from 8th Army to sustain attacks.

    The idea that the Op Shingle should have dashed for Rome is fanciful. The operation was not be mounted with enough troops to defend a perimeter which included Rome (or the SAlban Hills for that matter!) There were not sufficient follow up troops or shipping to shift the complete 5th Army to the Anzio beachhead, and certainly not fast enough to prevent,, as one British soldier remarked 24 hours in Rome and two years in a PW camp.

    However , there were three un-intended benefits from Op Shingle.

    1. It killed Germans. The German attacks on Anzio forced the Germans to deploy more troops to Italy an d many of them became casualties in an expensive attempt to wipe out the beachhead. None of the dead germans, broken equipment or expended ammuniton could be used later on decisive battlefields.

    2. Both sides learned lessons for Op Overlord. Had the Germans been able to throw the allies into the sea at Anzio it would have given them confidence .and disheartened the allies , which is why Hitler was so keen to send troops there. The Germans failed which may have further disheartened the defenders of the Atlantic coast and given confidence to 21 AG.

    3. Anzio demonstrated the allied capability and pattern of launching "end runs". This known modus operandi made it hard for the Germans to beleive that the Normandy landings might not be followed up by further landings closer to Calais.
     
    merdiolu and kerrd5 like this.

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