Agent Orange Orphans

Haven't heard this mentioned for a lot of years.
"These photos show orphans suffering from the horrific effects of America's use of chemical weapons during the Vietnam War.
The children were born decades after U.S. forces sprayed the herbicide dioxin, Agent Orange, over large areas of jungle in the 1960s.
But they are still battling the effects of the chemical today - including physical deformities and mental disorders. The shocking images were taken by American photographer Matt Lief Anderson, 30, at an orphanage outside of Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam.
Abandoned by their parents, 20 children can be seen living side by side in one room, each confined to a small metal bed with just a rug covering the bars.
They are suffering from a range of physical deformities caused by Agent Orange, including missing or under-developed limbs and extremely curved spines.
Some are deaf, blind and mute, while others have been bed-ridden for most of their young lives. +14

During his time at the orphanage, Mr Anderson met and took photos of children as young as 18-months-old.

'The children are living in terrible conditions and suffering from a gamut of afflictions caused by chemicals that my country used against them,' he said.
'Americans are the ones responsible, but we aren't giving any aid to the country at all. I felt horrible photographing these poor children.'"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579939/Children-suffer-horrific-effects-Americas-use-chemical-weapons-Vietnam-War.html#ixzz2vr5vDoYc

 

Note: Agent Orange was used as a herbicide to deprive enemy forces of cover, rather than deliberately as a chemical weapon against human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

 

There is no doubt that such children exist, and are dragged out for political purposes by the Vietnamese government frequently (as they did during my recent visit to Vietnam). However, it must be noted that the connection between the birth defects and Agent Orange has never been proven-- it remains speculative, to say the least. Similar malformations have been around for centuries, long before Agent Orange was developed and used.

Any old medical museum (e.g. the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Washington, D.C.) will have several such deformations on display.

 

Things that are "speculative". There is a marked difference for Viet Nam veterans in the numbers of deformed children from the rest of the population. That slight up tick in statistics isn't speculative....it is real and is why there is some limited help available from the government(the V.A.) for children with certain defects. I will be "speculative" as well when I also mention another statistic which is why I see "statistics" as always a bog to get into. The veterans wives have a much higher rate of fetus failures in their birth rate, that is a known statistic. I say that hides the majority of the mark-up in deformed births that would occur at a much higher rate amongst their babies, but in the race to develop a statistic amongst their born infants, they are held back from showing the full effects by the failure of so many fetus that abort before birth from the same cause. How easy it is to find ways to try to leave out the Viet Nam Veterans from the care they are entitled to after risking their lives in ways they never understood they were doing in their service to their country and in how many ways is it impossible to establish direct links to things that over time become obvious as have the rates of disease and damage that occurs from the "AGENT ORANGE" herbicides even amongst non-military people who have discovered becoming heavily damaged in their lives and lives of their children as a result of farming and other industrial related exposures to this agent. It is amazing how many people died from cigarettes over the years as science could not create that direct link until the statistics eventually overcame the situation. Sorry, I view Agent Orange in the same way as the tobacco of the cigarette. I think your thinking disrespects the views of so many vetarans that have found themselves in ill health after their exposure to the chemicals they had to prepare and handle without much in the way of protective equipment as they handled mixed and loaded materials they were told were harmless.

 

Not at all-- I am a vet myself, and I have provided medical care for many vets. However, "the views of so many veterans" are simply not a substitute for science. We have to remember the basic rule of epidemiology is that "association does not imply causation". I have studied Agent Orange and its effects for many years, and I am not convinced that it is in any way related to many of the complaints levied against it-- VA presumptive designation of certain diseases as being related to Agent Orange exposure is not science, but politics.

One Air Force study from the 1970s looked intensively at the Ranch Hand crews-- those people who actually flew and dropped the agent. They essentially swam in the stuff for days on end (leaky hoses, etc., led to the inside of the aircraft frequently being wet with agent, and their flight suits dripping with it). The conclusion of the study was that this highly exposed group was in fact in better health than those without similar exposure.

I'm not saying that people exposed to Agent Orange don't have any health problems-- I'm saying that the correlation with exposure has not been adequately demonstrated.

 

I thought that the statistical evidence that Agent Orange causes birth defects was very strong. That of course doesn't mean that everyone with a birth defect has it because of Agent Orange. A fair number of industrial chemicals will also cause such effects.

 

I will point out that today only the weakest forms of variations of Agent Orange can be used on farms as a result of what has been discovered "statistically" so it will remain debated amongst those that have to see a direct causal evidence what ever that may be and if left to them, people would still be ingesting it full strength as was used in Viet Nam in those early days of the chemical. I do know of neighbors who used it heavily early on in their fields........some very strange inability to grow any fruiting crops in those same fields for several years til the chemical washed out sufficiently to stop affecting the crops where it was used. Again I believe to continue to quote those early studies done with motivation to cover liabilities does not do any favor to the average veteran who did his job as told thinking he was safe from this very powerful chemical. The Vietnamese don't need to parade their disabled if we would only open our eyes to see the "uptick" amongst our own troops and their offspring, however insignificant that may be to those who will only accept direct causal proof.

 

A salute to DocL...Because he's earnt at least that....interesting converation too...

 

I would have to say it is neither Right or Left, but would call it "sensationalist". I was under the impression that the Daily Mail was a supermarket trash rag akin to the National Enquirer. Lot's of flash and trash, but little substance.

Not to nitpick, but the photo captioned "Deaths: Bodies of women and children lie on a road in South Vietnam following a U.S. air strike during the war" is a very well known photo from the equally well known(well, maybe not to the Daily Mail) My Lai Massacre.

 

Those looking for another Left Right broohaha can check out that split thread in the Stump.

 

Spina bifida is a naturally occurring birth defect which has been known for at least a century or two--- I seriously doubt that in the early 1900s mothers were exposed to Agent Orange....... Anecdotal evidence is simply not evidence. It is usually opinion without any basis in science.