Snipers Are Cowards - Michael Moore

yes, they were usually alone, or with a spotter, no?

 

I believe modern doctrine in most regular militaries is to have a three man team (shooter, spotter, and security). However that wasn't the doctrine of all or perhaps any of the powers during WW2. There's also the difference between a "sniper" being someone who "snipes" (i.e. a decent shot who is picking individual targets) and someone who is rated such by their military. Note that in the ACW rifled artillery was sometimes used to "snipe" as well.

 

yes, I thought Hathcock went on a number of missions alone..he did use a .50cal MG to 'snipe'

 

He did on a couple, but most of the time he had his spotter with him. Most of the time his spotter was Cpl. John R. Burke. Burke was later awarded the Navy Cross, posthumously, for actions at Khe Sahn. Here's the citation for the action he was killed in.

Navy Cross citation
For extraordinary heroism while serving as a Sniper Team Leader with Headquarters and Service Company, First Battalion, 26th Marines, 3rd Marine Division (Reinforced), in the Republic of Vietnam on 6 June 1967. Assigned the mission of defending an outpost on Hill 950 at Khe Sanh, Quảng Trị Province, Corporal Burke's team was taken under attack by a numerically superior enemy force. During the initial assault, Corporal Burke was wounded by an enemy grenade. Ignoring his wound, he administered first aid to a severely wounded comrade and placed him in a relatively safe position, covering the wounded man with his own body to protect him from further injury. Heeding a call for help from outside the bunker, he unhesitatingly went to the aid of another Marine. While he and a companion were moving the man to the security of the bunker an enemy grenade exploded, knocking him and his comrade into the bunker. Although seriously wounded, he moved the wounded man to a tunnel to protect him from the devastating enemy fire. With all his team members casualties, Corporal Burke unhesitatingly and with complete disregard for his own safety armed himself with grenades, and shouting words of encouragement to his men, stormed from the bunker in a valiant one-man assault against the enemy positions. While firing his weapon and throwing grenades at the enemy positions, Corporal Burke was mortally wounded. By his dauntless courage, bold initiative and devotion to duty, he was instrumental in stopping the enemy attack and saving his men from possible further injury or death, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and the United States Marine Corps and upholding the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.

--Doesn't sound too cowardly to me.

It should also be noted, that Chris Kyle himself said that Hathcock was probably the greatest sniper that ever lived. People also need to understand when discussing snipers and confirmed kills, that much depended on where the sniper was employed and during what era. When Hathcock was active, the military didn't credit a kill as confirmed unless it was verified by a third party other than the spotter, that had to be an officer. Since, Hathcock preferred to spend his time in the bush stalking his quarry, very often behind enemy lines, most of his kills were not confirmed. Current rules only require that the kill be witnessed by another service member, officer or enlisted, and logged. So naturally the spotter can log and confirm virtually all kills.

The .50 cal kill was with a Ma Deuce that he'd mounted a scope on and the dude was on a bike. So he dropped a guy moving, on a bike, with a single shot from a .50 cal. HMG at 1 miles distance. Pretty impressive shot.

 

lwd said: "Role model for making documentaries? Are we talking about the same individual here?"
I said what I said because he was the first one who got me interested in film making. At the time when I first saw his documentaries I was ignorant of his flaws, but now as I have gotten more into film making, after watching his documentaries again I can see his flaws in his documentaries. I have not used him as an example of 'presenting' facts, and I agree with you with what you said about his flaws but I have used him more as an example of how to make films like with editing, film making techniques, etc. which is one of the things I plan on going into when I go to college next year.

 

Ok, thanks for getting me straight on the matter. Again. That's how it was printed in the newspaper, but as we know, newspapermen never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

Agreed A-58!

 

Say what you will about Moore, but he is very good at broadcasting information to the [often ignorant] masses. I wouldn't consider any of his films a documentary because they all have a strong bias but you have to admit that he knows how to get information out and knows how to make a point. Who else could make hundreds of millions at the box office on a "documentary"?

So Smiley 2.0, I can see why you have/do consider him a role model. That being said (and just to be perfectly clear) I can't stand the man and his "documentaries" are full of crap so try not to go down the exact same path!

 

history is full of the masses adoring/following the evil masters...yes, good point on the 'ignorant', which I substitute with 'human'

 

George Patton said: "So try not to go down the exact same path!"

No need to worry GP!

 

So was Joseph Goebbels...

 

and Jim Jones, Koresh, the Comet man, hitler, etc etc

 

he, he, he..yes...they all are cowards.

In this simplistic argument: all of them decide to fire, shoot, go to war, in the knowledge that they are in a safe position and circumstance to fire and not be fired upon.



Noteworthy: the first reactor reacted as if Moore said "our" (British/American) snipers are cowards....but maybe Moore means ALL snipers are cowards .. and that suddenly gives a different perspective, doesn't it ?

How much hated weren't the WW2 german and japanese snipers ? The Chinese snipers in Korea ? The VC snipers in vietnam..the Taliban ?
Ohh... THEN snipers are despicable !
And if one was caught, his throat would be slit open.Never a sniper POW..right ?

 

Was Moore just compared to Goebbels? Lol.

 

WTF?

 

Lol. Yeah I am also very confused.

 

Near as I can figure...

He agrees that logically the broad statement that "All snipers are cowards" means that all military and civilian personnel not in imminent danger are also cowards."


He also states that snipers are often considered despicable, unless they're on your side much like spies.

I think.

 

I'm going with that.

 

Agreed........ :hypnotize: