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Saving Jewish Lives: What Would You Do?

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Elinor Florence, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Well, I find easy to understand, and we see the process going on around us even today.

    Generalizations being accepted as universal truths.

    An unwillingness to see the world in anything else other than black & white. I get it. It's nice and simple. It's categorical. And it's also flawed.

    So we can still see rabid Anti-jewish propaganda spewed forth both by the Ultra-right, and Islamic press.

    And we don't have to look far to find Anti-Islamic or Anti-Arabic comments on our mainstream media. Luckily, we still have some degree of choice where we find our information. Most Arabs don't. Most Israeli citizen's are scarred by their historic experience (in Europe, remember), and cornered by their belief into a siege mentality, which helps perpetuate the vicious circle and condemns all Israelis and Palestinians alike. Some Israeli's see through the pain and violence, but it's difficult to find hope. It wasn't that long ago, an Israeli-American journalist was seriously advocating genocide on his blog. Nice guy.

    People who stand out in a community make easy victims. It has to do with what is a socially accepted "truth". Just as many muslim's today will accuse or suspect every jew as being a supporter of Israel, and many Israeli's see all Palestinians as terrorists, many Western Europeans see an ISIS supporter in every muslim. It's taking considerably more effort today to dissuade and counter these rising feelings in Europe.

    When nasty generalisations are resounding through the ether, we force individuals to take a side based on identity. As the religious identity of an individual is deeply ingrained already at childhood, it is not easily resolved, and definitely not a choice that most can make quickly based on logic.

    Rwanda's conflict was a spark long coming, to anyone paying attention. Bosnia too.
     
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  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Still saving lives was Joh Rabe, a German businessman, in Nanking. There´s also a film about him.

    John Heinrich Detlev Rabe (November 23, 1882 – January 5, 1950) was a German businessman who is best known for his efforts to stop the atrocities of the Japanese army during the Nanking Occupation and his work to protect and help the Chinese civilians during the event.

    In 1948, the citizens of Nanking learned of the very dire situation of the Rabe family in occupied Germany and they quickly raised a very large sum of money, equivalent to $2000 ($20,000 in 2015). The city mayor himself went to Germany, via Switzerland where he bought a large amount of food for the Rabe family. From mid 1948 until the communist takeover the people of Nanking also sent a food package each month, for which Rabe in many letters expressed deep gratitude.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Answering the original question. Pre-war I think I would have done my best to get the people out of country to safety but once the situation got worse, I think during wartime everything depended on whether you had money or not, as also Schindler was able to buy his way with money,wine and presents. If a very close personal friend, I probably would do the same as the Anne Frank family had. Very tough question.You still put yourself and family in danger.
     
  4. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WWII Veteran

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    I am eternally grateful that I was never called upon to make the sort of decisions of which we speak.

    Being only human, I would like to think that I would have made the right decision, whatever that might have been.

    Ron
     
  5. dude_really

    dude_really Doesn't Play Well With Others

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    and there you touched a point:
    I believe most jews in hiding were reported by "fellow" citizens and not through clever searching of Gestapo/SD.

    The difference with confronting western people today with that question and those in the 40's is ;
    a) people were generally economically worse off: unemployment thru war means; no food within a month.... with no work around, reporting a jew in hiding that you don't know personally is rather tempting for the reportingbonus.
    ( indeed kids are very easy to manipulate to tell about suspicious "uncles" staying suddenly in places where they were never seen before. And you don't even had to promise them candy for this. (note: even today if a child is part of a crime scene/ criminal family it is straight away "interrogated" by police(family care unit) at the scene..before the lawyers can avoid it...)
    c) back then there was a much bigger divide in society between religious beliefs..the downfall of a jew (or catholic or protestant) family (with a competing shop or enterprise) to your own benefit was regarded as a proper deed within your own community.
    d) and finally the certainty that you and your WHOLE family would be sent off to the camps for hiding jews is the most frightening thing to think twice about it.
    je suis juif ? je suis chicken ! also today...



    and something else ; yesterday I read some article where it was "discovered" that the Dutch Railways saved a bill for the Nazis to pay for the transport of persons from Amsterdam to Kamp Westerbork (Transit camp at border). Obviously to the rail personnel and the Railways organisation it was for the transport of jews (i don't think that route was already in cattle cars..those came after that).
    Nevertheless, it was oh and ah in the article.
    But, looking at it further: had the Dutch Railways not asked for payment , then they would have been fully complicit. Now, they could pretend they don't care what they transport or have no responsibility about it , as long as they "just" transport the "passengers" in good health from point a to point b (which was not a death camp).
    And for the railway workers, (as above pointed) they needed their jobs/salary.
    A strike of a few days or week is fine(which did occur in 1940 and 1944), but not indefinitely.
    So? pointing fingers at the bad railway workers ?
    NO! there is ALSO the exiled and residing IN SAFETY of the responsible(!) Dutch government which could easily have said to all workers in the occupied zone: STRIKE ALL THE TIME (in any industry aiding the Germans) and we guarantee you to compensate after the war...For sure THAT would have made a big difference.
    But none of that.
    The same cheapskate attitude towards the dutch (and british ;) ) pow: during prison in german/jap camps: NO WAGES.

    And with that kind of support from your Queen far away safe, you would (heavy)risk all that is dear to you ?
    Alliances, governments, military , all failed, and then you are required to play the hero ?
    If yes, you have a bold and strong character and are in a lucky position. If no, you really aren't to blame.
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Not forgetting that once you got "rid" of the Jews their apartment was ready for someone else to take as well as the goodies left inside... :(
     
  7. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Let's not kid ourselves what we would do. There's a reason why the righteous amongst nations only numbers 25,271, against a mainland Western & Central European population in 1939 well in excess of 100 million. Yes folks, that's well less than 1 individual in 4000. In the heart of the continent that brought us the Enlightenment, and a host of other humane ideals.

    As studies have shown, the vast majority of humans follow the pack, we have a need to belong to a group. It's a part of our identity. If the flock runs left, the vast (and I do mean vast) majority run left.

    Having seen first hand how police states can repress by proxy, as well as witnessed a group's capacity to edit selectively the memory of shameful events (Going from "We all discussed this issue, and it was agreed by all..." to a unanimous "we never discussed this as a group at all, and we hadn't decided" in the space of a week), I have no doubts at all as to the capacity of my fellow humans to self-deceive, and their willingness to be seen as part of a superior group, with their opponents deserving of every inch of humiliation and punishment, even death.
     
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  8. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    I triple this!!! totally agree...humans, even those that seem good, are, at times, hateful/vengeful/etc
     
  9. denny

    denny Member

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    I imagine a lot of people (myself included) could have typed just what you did. It is hard for me to read these posts. I realize it was not "just" Jews...but they were the bulk of the humiliated.
    But yeah...what WOULD we each have done...back then...with 50% of the population spying on each other...and you live in an apartment or small house. Where/How would you even hide One Person. How to feed them...what do they do...stay inside a room for 3 years.
    Shortages made living hard for one. How do you account for something as common (yet telling), as toilet paper, soap, how often your shower turns on, what noise a person might hear when you are not supposed to be in your home. All the little things that might give you away.
    How many people, just like me, must have cried as they watched people taken away...feeling like "I should do something"...but had no idea what or how....and were very afraid to continue their own life.
    There are lots of regrets in war...lots of sadness and horrible regrets.
    I tip my hat to all that helped...in any way at all.
     

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