Tamino, in this case I must say you exagerate, because I know for certain there are more than enough ppl and also "alternative" media in the US, who question things. But probably a smaller minority. In our countries it seems this minority is a lot bigger, but still the majority is sleeping or not caring (imo)..... Here is an older but good article about A´stan/Iraq etc. The Bush Administration’s entanglement with ENRON is beginning to unravel as it finally admits that Enron executives entered the White House six times last year to secretly plan the Administration’s energy policy with Vice-President Cheney before the collapse of the Texas-based energy giant. Meanwhile, even more trouble for our former-Texas-oil-man-turned-President is brewing with reports that […] Bush, Enron, UNOCAL and the Taliban by Tom Turnipseed The Bush Administration’s entanglement with ENRON is beginning to unravel as it finally admits that Enron executives entered the White House six times last year to secretly plan the Administration’s energy policy with Vice-President Cheney before the collapse of the Texas-based energy giant. Meanwhile, even more trouble for our former-Texas-oil-man-turned-President is brewing with reports that unveil UNOCAL, another big energy company, for being in bed with the Taliban, along with the U.S. government in a major, continuing effort to construct pipelines through Afghanistan from the petroleum-rich Caspian Basin in Central Asia. Beneath their burkas, UNOCAL is being exposed for giving the five star treatment to Taliban Mullahs in the Lone Star State in 1997. The “evil-ones” were also invited to meet with U.S. government officials in Washington, D.C. According to a December 17, 1997 article in the British paper, The Telegraph, headlined, “Oil barons court Taliban in Texas,” the Taliban was about to sign a “?2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country. … The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. … Dressed in traditional salwar khameez,Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay.” At the same time, U.S. government documents reveal that the Taliban were harboring Osama bin Laden as their “guest” since June 1996. By then, bin Laden had: been expelled by Sudan in early 1996 in response to US insistence and the threat of UN sanctions; publicly declared war against the U.S. on or about August 23, 1996; pronounced the bombings in Riyadh and at Khobar in Saudi Arabia killing 19 US servicemen as ‘praiseworthy terrorism’, promising that other attacks would follow in November 1996 and further admitted carrying out attacks on U.S. military personnel in Somalia in 1993 and Yemen in 1992, declaring that “we used to hunt them down in Mogadishu”; stated in an interview broadcast in February 1997 that “if someone can kill an American soldier, it is better than wasting time on other matters.” Evidence was also developing which linked bin Laden to: the 1995 bombing of a U.S. military barracks in Riyadh which killed five; Ramzi Yuosef, who led the 1993 World Trade Center attacks; and a 1994 assassination plot against President Clinton in the Philippines. Back in Houston, the Taliban was learning how the “other half lives,” and according to The Telegraph, “stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus.” The Taliban representatives “…were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal, they marveled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six bathrooms.” Mr. Miller, said he hoped that UNOCAL had clinched the deal. Dick Cheney was then CEO of Haliburton Corporation, a pipeline services vendor based in Texas. Gushed Cheney in 1998, “I can’t think of a time when we’ve had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian. It’s almost as if the opportunities have arisen overnight. The good Lord didn’t see fit to put oil and gas only where there are democratically elected regimes friendly to the United States. Occasionally we have to operate in places where, all things considered, one would not normally choose to go. But we go where the business is.” Would Cheney bargain with the harborers of U.S. troop killers if that’s where the business was? The Telegraph reported that Unocal had promised to start building the pipeline and paying the Taliban immediately, with the added inducements and a donation of ?500,000 to the University of Nebraska for courses in Afghanistan to train 400 teachers, electricians, carpenters and pipefitters. The Telegraph also reported, “The US government, which in the past has branded the Taliban’s policies against women and children “despicable”, appears anxious to please the fundamentalists to clinch the lucrative pipeline contract.” In a paper prepared by Neamatollah Nojumi, at the Tufts University Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Nojumi wrote in August 1997 that Madeline Albright sat in a “full-dress CIA briefing” on the Caspian region. CIA agents then accompanied “some well-trained petroleum engineers” to the region. Albright concluded that shaping the region’s policies was “one of the most exciting things that we can do.” It’s also exciting to the Bush Administration. According to the authors of Bin Laden, the Hidden Truth, one of the FBI’s leading counter terrorism agents, John O’Neill, resigned last year in protest over the Bush Administration’s alleged obstruction of his investigation into bin Laden. (A similar complaint has been filed on behalf of another unidentified FBI Agent by the conservative Judicial Watch public interest group.) Supposedly the Bush Administration had been meeting since January 2001 with the Taliban, and was also reluctant to offend Saudi Arabians who O’Neill had linked to bin Laden. Mr. O’Neill, after leaving the FBI, assumed the position of security director at the World Trade Center, where he was killed in the 911 attacks. As America’s New War now begins focusing on other “rogue nations,” UNOCAL’s stars have magically aligned. About two months after the Houston parties, UNOCAL executive John Maresca addressed the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific and urged support for establishment of an investor-friendly climate in Afghanistan, “… we have made it clear that construction of our proposed pipeline cannot begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders and our company.” Meaning that UNOCAL’s ability to construct the Afghan pipeline was a cause worthy of U.S. taxpayer dollars. Maresca’s prayers have been answered with the Taliban’s replacement. As reported in Le Monde, the new Afghan government’s head, Hamid Karzai, formerly served as a UNOCAL consultant. Only nine days after Karzai’s ascension, President Bush nominated another UNOCAL consultant and former Taliban defender, Zalmay Khalilzad, as his special envoy to Afghanistan. When UNOCAL makes big bucks from the pipeline they should donate 50% of all pretax profits to the 911 Fund. And they should also cut a very special check to the widow of FBI Agent O’Neill. http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/01/10/bush-enron-unocal-and-the-taliban/
Tinfoil hat got a leak? Where are these US oligarchs operating? Are they running the oil industry in Iraq, or was/is that oil extracted by any nation willing to invest and sold on the world market to any nation willing to buy it? Where is the oil in Afghanistan? Oops, they don't have any. And now that we have withdrawn from the middle east, what do you see? War, genocide, wholesale slavery, chaos, anarchy. And how are these secret oligarchs making money off of that? Don't tell me weapons, they are using Russian and Chinese weapons. Did it ever occur to you that the socialist dogma you read and regurgitate is wrong? Maybe the US isn't the Great Satan. Maybe the Great Satan is medieval religion and the ignorance created by that religion that makes entire populations willing to submit to murderous tyrants and wild-eyed religious fanatics. The split (sorry to burst your bubble) in the world isn't between the US and "everybody else." It's between the modern humanist world and the medieval world. That medieval world is slipping into Europe and the US, and sooner or later they'll be armed with nukes instead of firearms. Pick your side, but pick carefully.
KB, I am amazed at your naivety. Just like in the Ukraine thread, can I ask your nationality ? (I am Prussian btw)... You don´t know the UNOCAL pipeline project in A´stan and don´t know there is a lot of drug money to be made there and don´t know A´stan is geostrategic important don´t know about raw materials there etc........ amazing. There would be more to address in your post, esp. as you turn things around. lol Later. And this has nothing to do with tinfoils but with facts. Luckily more and more europeans see behind the US (+UK?) agendas, the movement "Ami go home" will come back, if US continues I suppose. But tptb won´t care. Here German wiki of pipeline (it doesn´t tell some of the connections but still is quite ok on the topic) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-Pipeline
No, I feel perfectly well. Iraq, Syria and Lybia were on good way to build sovereign and independent states for their citizens. Then came family Bush and they have used the US arsenals of weapons of mass destruction to destroy the entire countries. People were murdered, factories, hospitals and houses were deliberately destroyed. These countries would need decades to recover and resume relatively normal life. Mentally and emotionally sane people can not support such barbarism. Do you?
More tinfoil hat stuff? After 13 years who is extracting these precious minerals? Who has built or even attempted to build this pipeline? Who is making the drug money? Even though the loony left blathered that BS in obscure websites when the war began, NONE OF IT HAPPENED. So, 13 years later who is naive? You, who read this on some tinfoil hat website years ago and still believe it even though none of it came true? Or me, who bases his opinions on stupid stuff like reality?
Seems you haven´t read my links, guess ur just ignorant. No problem, but don´t complain we make fun of you... how old are you btw ? Just asking, I know when I was 20-25 or so I also was kind of a sheeple: You can grow up and learn still.... well fact A is the Iraq war was illegal. So UK+US had to do it alone as every other refused to join in the crime.......... and fact B is that the A´stan war is questionable, much more because others joined it........still no prove it was ok. Probably 10.000s (or 100.000s) of innocents killed there. You support that ? Your "heroic" troops, crushing cars of Iraqies who stole wood ........I have more videos of "brave" troops....this is only an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJC1unnuwds
Yeah, I must be. Only smart people believe in an invisible unocal pipeline and invisible mines all owned by invisible oligarchs. Under which law? Not UN law, I quoted that to you. Perhaps there is some local Iraqi ordnance that prohibits invasion? Is there a fine? Did somebody send us a ticket that remains unpaid?
First read stuff up, maybe than reply. We might take you more seriously then. That IRAQ war is illegal I have written above with sources. If we want to open the can of worms of A´stan too, later maybe when I have more time. But note keep your replies quiet and logical and disprove the stuff I wrote above and gave links too. Also what is this guy in the video talking?? "United States tankers fools" ? Or does he mean "hool" ? Well both would fit. Even better fit would be stupid asshole US troops. Even the other nations avoided the Americans, as a comment on video from a Canadian tells us: "This video and comments proves why American people are so stupid. They cant accept they did everything wrong in Iraq and specially Afghanistan-(They didn't even have an army when USA invaded, That means they killed Civilians and called them terrorist) Canada and The British had mostly army's together and some solo but i never really saw Americans with British and a few Canadian armies im guessing they tried to avoid to be with Americans, For this reason. Im not saying all the Terrorist they killied where Civs no but in Afghanistan they didn't have an army, I have seen some videos of attack heli's just shooting down people running across a field or walking and i hear one terrorist down and there not even carrying a gun u can tell because of how close the heli gets" And after reading more comments, it seems the above is right. At least more British people are critical: "I am ashamed to be british, for my country took part in the destruction of Iraq. Its like kids bullying in the playground. Iraq has lunch money (oil), America wants to steal it and Britain joins in for the hell of it. FORGET SADDAM. If the USA truly cared about moral issues (removing dictators) they would have invaded North Korea years ago. The invasion of Iraq was to steal oil." IF you want more videos of US crimes, just tell me "friend"
That's very nice Herr Luftwaffe. I've never understood Saddam supporters. Was it the genocide? The torture? Perhaps the mustache?
Yes I offer you the same advice... Now, do you actually read all of the article or just copy pasta? The article "appears to be attempting to make a case that the US government is in cahoots with Big Oil, namely, UNOCAL. However, despite how the article is written, the facts support exactly the opposite. UNOCAL was wining, dining, and negotiating with the Taliban, and appeared to be on the verge of success, on August 11, 1998. http://www.afghanistannewscenter.com/news/1998/august/aug11j1998.htm However, less than two weeks later, the Clinton administration popped 75 Tomahawk cruise missiles into Afghanistan. Thus making any American business deals with the Taliban untenable. This would seem to prove that the US Government was not in cahoots with Big Oil, or else they would not have acted in such a manner as to poison the pipeline deal. Finally, the last two paragraphs indicate that the author is clueless to the real situation. UNOCAL officially withdrew from the pipeline construction consortium on December 8, 1998, and this move threw the whole project into chaos. http://www.gasandoil.com/news/central_asia/57df2e7609175a8d55c810a2e798317a Despite what the last two paragraphs profess, UNOCAL never returned to the project. It was under threat of a CHinese takeover in 2005, before finally merging with Chevron later that year.
United States Army tankers. Hooah. I don't expect you to understand. Stupid asshole US troops? I'm curious why there is no bile for the stupid asshole looters? Especially, stupid asshole looters who bring their kid along to help with the score. Should I also mention...stupid asshole looters who bring their kid along to assist with the score and use their family's only major source of income as transportation.
And your point is? There's just as many batshit crazy people in Canada as there are in other countries. I can attest to that. The fact that a "Canadian" said this has no bearing -- we aren't all polite, peacenik maple syrup-slurpers over here.
That quote is either seriously out of context or wrong. I can see why it might be that 1441 doesn't justify an attack on Iraq but that's hardly the only justification. All of which seems to concentrate on 1441 and ignore Sadam's other "acts of war". So either two narrowly focused or flat out wrong. Rather missplaces sarcasm IMO. Indeed the whole run up to the invasion of Iraq rather clearly demonstrated that neither the US or Britain was acting in such a fashion. The same could be said with about as much justification about most posts in this forum. Of course in this case like many of the others some of the propaganda is based on fact and some on opinion or even llies. I thought you said you were going to explain something. That is simply a rather contorted and factually deficient statement of opinion. ??? Wow. Talk about disconected with reality. Thus indicating you have no real knowledge or understanding of what it is like in the US.
Those wearing hat's of Tin often say that or similar things. ??? You seriously believe that? Wow ... Talk about factually challenged. By misidentifing the perpetrators as well as the real situation it looks to me like you do.
Editing out the personal attacks, No that's not a fact that's an opinion. (It is worth noteing that you accept a far lower level of "proof" in claiming the US is guilty of a crime than you need for the USSR Russia.) It doesn't take much of an effort to find that under international law if a nation commits acts of war against your nation especially repeated ones you have a legitimate right to respond with force. Actually pretty conclusive proof but you don't see what you don't want to see. Indeed the Taliban have killed a lot of innocent people. One of the reasons for removing them from power. I see you are still addicted to videos in spite of the questionable utility of most of them in any sort of reasoned discussion. Oh wait that's not what you wanted was it ... This isn't the pot calling the kettle black this is more like the pot calling the just polished silverwear black. Already take care of (disproving your opinions which you for some reason confuse with facts). No we don't really want more videos or opinions of questionable providence. We want facts and reasoned logical discussion. You don't seem to be able to produce that though.
Pot calling kettle. KB is one of the least naive posters on this board. A whole mass of assumptions that at least to me appear completely unwarrented. Others have addressed the UNOCAL issue. The drug trade was one of the reasons the US stayed in Afghanistan and ideed one of the reasons others wanted us to stay there. As for "Geostrategic important" why don't you explain that to us? As far as I can tell the main reason it's of improtance now is that it was of so little importance a bunch of fanatics took it over and no one cared much until they started exporting their fanatacism. Looks like some more unsupported if not factually challenged opinions from what I can see. Oh that's really useful. Not only are you "shotgun referencing" you are linking to a German article on an English speaking forum. How about telling us what's of signifigance on that page? Or better yet finding the English language version of it and quoteing the part you think is of import in this discussion.
I'm not getting much of this. It seems to be based on ethnic (American) hatred more than anything else. His reasoning appears to be that we invaded Afghanistan for a pipeline (which never came about) and for the mineral wealth (which never came about) and completely ignores the fact that Afghanistan was the base for Al Qaeda which made a direct attack on the United States. Then the war in Iraq was "illegal" even though I quoted the UN resolution on the subject which opened the door for a resumption of hostilities. I'm not sure this forum is an appropriate venue for merely spewing ethnic or nationalist slurs.
That's conspiracy theorists and Ameriphobes for you, they let their own personal views and whatever garbage propaganda they listen to get in the way of them acknowledging the facts.
