The U.S. Admits Neo Nazis are fighting in Ukraine

An "arrest warrant". Get real. Interpol don't want him, the Russians do...and only for the patently absurd charges printed on that Mickey Mouse "arrest warrant"; you know, the pack of Soviet-era libel that could mean just about anything.
I'm surprised at Interpol even lowering themselves to the same level as the Russians, but I guess it proves even formerly respected institutions are full of playground revolutionaries and useful idiots these days.
I'll bet Otto would be surprised to hear this is "my" bulletin board.
Talk about paranoia.

 

Again you got it totally wrong. There might be resentment but not against Russians but the current regime of Russia and its laughable propaganda shit. That is totally different. You on the other hand are a prime example of present day Russian propaganda victim. You have shown your hatred and arrogance here time after time.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Huckleberries"?

 

I like strawberries...Can't say that I have ever had huckleberries. Blueberries are about as close as I have come to huckleberries.

As to states...I am in the state of Pennsylvania. Although, I was in the state of New Jersey earlier this week...Cape May to be exact.

 

All these hysterical reactions only prove the efficiency of the OUN propaganda in the US :the OUN has succeeded to transform itself from a band of murderers of Poles (100000) and Germany helpers in the Holocaust to democratic freedom-fighters .it was easy : the only thing they had to do was to whisper/shout : we are anti-communists.

The same happened with the bandits in Libya and Syria and a lot of former Wehrmacht goose-steppers.

It only proves the existence of a lot of gullible persons in the US ,it proves also that a war hero (McCain) does not make a good politician .

Whatever,the result is a big loss for the Ukraine and the US who are showed with their pants down (not unusual when Maobama is president) :the US have 2 options :

to continue to remain pouling in the corner

to accept reality = defeat and to remember the old proverb : if you can't beat them,join them .

Of course the OUN will reply that there is a third option : to start WWIII,but that can be expected from these stupid fanatics .

 

IThanks! Now I know exactly who you are.

Unnecessary, you are just repeating yourself. I already know that.

 

Please provide evidence as to a single hysterical reaction.

hys·ter·i·cal
(hĭ-stĕr′ĭ-kəl)
adj.
1. Laughing or crying for a prolonged period of time: The children were hysterical during the thunderstorm.
2. Informal Extremely funny: told a hysterical story.
3. Of, characterized by, or arising from hysteria. No longer in clinical use.

 

Exactement, mon ami!

They should blame their propagandist, not me. But, despite all fuious reactions to my opinions, I have maintained my level of behavior.

 

deleted.

 

QFT.

 

Not really. The official report may not be out but there is considerable evidence available and it clearly rules out some scenarios and is consistent with others. The official report will not change this to any great extent. It will likely make more evidence available and state the official position(s).

I don't see any evidence at all that this is "gaiing momentum", indeed the facts pretty clearly refute it as the follow on posts illustrate.

Clearly they broke the treaty and initiated the activities that lead to the current war in the Ukraine as well as their illegal siezeure of the Crimea. That doesn't mean that everything happening in the Ukraine is Russia's fault and no one here has claimed that from what I've read.

There is a considerable difference between "brokering a deal" and sponsoring an overthrow. The former is often a neutral party trying to get two or more factions to agree the latter is rather the opposite.

Please show us exactly what clause in the treaty the above actions breached. Wasn't Germany also a signatory to the treaty by the way.

Much of the paragraph above is either speculation or factually challenged.

Without more details I would be hesitant to draw too many conclusions from statements like the above. It is more to the point that the sanctions are not reasonably considered interference in internal affairs.

They started out quite peaceful. Actions by the Russian influenced security apperatus including agent provocateurs among the protestors provoked some violence but nothing near the level that currently exists.

 

Actually it's not.

They most certainly are not.

Wrong and wrong and wrong. The Daily Beast article did not claim that Russia shot down the airliner, what it did do is make a very strong case for the shot coming from either the Russian controlled seperatists or Russian troops. It also made a pretty strong case for it being a case of mistaken identity. Furhtermore there were numerous facts presented that can be checked out and if found to not be facts refuted. So far none of the pro Putin faction has been able to refute either the fact or the logic presented in the article. The same can not be said of the Putin/Russian claims. Then of course there is the fact that the people who actually shot the missile know who shot it down and the fact that some claimed responsiblity for it before they realized it was a commercial plane is rather telling.

Last I heard the Russians even admitted as much although there were some fallacious claims about it no longer being a model in Russian service.

??? The article mentioned that the plane showed evidence that the missile exploded above the plane. Whether or not the cockpit would have been more or less extensivly damaged due to a direct impact is thus not a factor although I would expect a tail impact to result in little cockpit damage in any case. The leaked report indicates the exports consulted there think it is consistent with such a missile and others have pretty much stated the same thing.

That is speculation and rather ill informed speculation at that. Reports like this take considerable time especially when there are as politically chaged as this issue is. Officials want to make sure all t he "i's" are dotted and the "t's" crossed and the wording is precise.

I don't think we are jumping to conclusions although since you find the truth unpalitable I can see why you might. On the flip side though when the US shot down a passenger liner a few years ago I didn't see any need to wait for the final report on that either. The way in which Russia has handled this does stand in stark contrast to the US though.

 

Sources please. Note however that I believe it was Putin and not Russia that was pointed out as being homophobic.

You are talking about Putin right if so I would certainly agree with the latter part.

Hardly. The current crisis was manufactured by Russia had Russia not instigated things the West would have been perfectly happy to continue with the cooperative environment that was evolving.

That's your opinion and the evidence to date indicates that it is at best questionable and most likely completely flawed.

That's your opinion and the evidence to date indicates that it is at best questionable and most likely completely flawed.

The results have certainly been bad. It's not clear yet whether or not they merit the term "catastrophic". The choice that the Ukraine made was not what you state but whether or not they wanted to be an independent country or not. They chose independence and I support them in that.

Again it hardly merits the term catastrophic. US leadership has certainly been less that it should have been but Russia is suffering more than the west in general and the US in particular.

Waxing incoherent again I see.

 

Sorry for all the post but the quote limit is a pain.

There's a huge difference between the existance of a Jewish oligarch and Jewish oligarchs running the Ukraine.

It's not the fighters that I've seen compared to Stalin (or Hitler) just Putin and only certain of his activities and there is some merit in those comparisons.

Most if not all the rest of that post is consistent with what I've read.

Of course there is no evidence at all that that was going to happen.

Except of course they aren't. There was I believe a proposed bill to make Ukrainian the offical language (which doesn't ban the use of other languages) but it didn't pass.

??? how abusurd. Obama has no control over CNN while Putin has direct authority over Russia Today. Such a comparison is "reality challenged". Given the conversation to date that's not a huge surprise though.

No it is just a very strong indicator.

Rather looks like you are projecting your own faults on others. Takao's POV hardly seams "extremly simplified" nor does it look like he is dependent on porpaganda. You on the other hand have illustrted both such faults. As for things hurting Russia, Putins current activities are clearly doing so and that's been one of our points. Russia and Russians had and indeed have much more to gain from cooperating with the West as oppose to the current course.

 

That depends on the matter at hand and the criteria chosen. Certainly neither side is perfect in this case but Russian siezing the Crimeia and instigating a civil war in the Ukraine certainly is an indicator of whose side is stronger morally in my book.

Is it? We do say the US and not US we also say the UK rather than just UK and it was the USSR not just USSR. Both are acceptable English as far as I can see. I've seen older documents whigh refer to "the Germanies". Might make an interesting linguistic thread, looks to me like the tendency is to use "the" when refering to countries with multiple sub states but then we don't say "the Canada" or "the Mexico" which have provinces and states respectivly.

 

An interesting opinion that I've seen nothing to really validate.

Interesting as the Russians were the ones that chose the militant path and from all the evidence the seperatists at at least as bad as the Ukrainian volenteers.

Another opinion devoid of factual support. I challenge you to show any NATO fianncing of the events in the Ukraine that lead up to the Russian intervention. Cerainly some support was provieded to democratic forces in the Ukraine but you also are ignoring the popular support and the Russian meddling that instigated the whole thing. I'm also waiting for evidence that those who took over after the former president fled are anywhere near as bad as he was criminally that is.

And such suffering wouldn't be occuring if Russia hadn't instigated a civil war which means its the Russians you should be comparing to the Nazis and not the Ukrainians.

Wrong again or perhaps I should say still. On one side there is the Ukrainian governement and various volenteer units (not NATO the US or the EU) and on the other is Russia, Russian inspired thugs, and proably some idealistic Ukrainians of Russian decent.

No good propaganda relies on presenting the truth that way those that check it out learn to trust the source. Bad propaganda is based on lies and often claims to be the only source of the truth. The latter is consistent with what Russian sources are producing.

That is an opinion and not a fact. The evidence available pretty much across the board does not support it.

I agree but that cuts both ways.

Let's see. Has the leader of the Ukraine been convicted of war crimes? Not to my knowledge so that makes the first part false. Is he a leader for "selfish reasons" ? That seams rather an open question. Are civilians being murdered in the Ukraine? Almost assuredly but it's also almost assuredly happening on both sides and Russia instigated the war.

 

No. Good propaganda can't be debunked.

Weren't you just saying something about staying on topic? There's a difference by the way from flawed analysis and "lying"

We do, I'm not sure about you though.

Our sources have presented facts and logic that are potentiallly independent and potentially refutable. We are still waiting for you to refute them. Your sources have been shown to be either opinions, based on fallacies, illogical or some combination there of.

Actually you haven't.

Huckleberries are a fruit that grows wild in the North West. Quite good eating but they show no feelings at all with regards to any nationaliteies. Are you taking incoherency lessons from LJAd?

OUN? If you are going to coin your own acronyms you really should tell the rest of us what they mean. Better yet don't. And that was the high point of your post.

 

The job of the OUN boys was not difficult :after the war a lot of them arrived in the US,,tired after the work (100000 Poles and countless Jews is not a trifle),but out of bullets and iron rods.They knew what to do : the Dog of Pavlov trick (first,they used it at Fuller ,Massachusetts,later at Fuller Washington DC,also known as Capitol Hill).

First they talked about democracy,which resulted in 2 Wafs .Liberty was good for 3 Wafs,communism for a lot of threatening Wafs ,and :"it is the duty of the US" for a lot of wagging of the tail and a lot of money to buy bullets and iron rods (there were still non-Ukrainians living in the Ukraine).

60 years later the heirs of these gentlemen appeared again (Svoboda ,the Right Section) to finish the work of their ancestors,helped by the old revolutionary and war hero from Phoenix,who thought that he was the reincarnation of Patrick Henry,and made,not for the first time,a fool of himself,by standing on the barricades and shouting :Ukraine will make Europe better.
After the criminals from Poland,Kosovo and Albania,are arriving those from over the Mediterranean,and the old fool is imagining that we are waiting on the arrival of the criminals from Ukraine.

Other point : where can we find the pictures of the Russian ambassador standing on the barricades of Ferguson in the company of Weber (from Stormfront) claiming that Russia will not allow the persecution of black people in the US ?
These pictures must exist,because we have the pictures of McCain on the barricades of Kiev in the company of a well-known Ukrainian neo-nazi,shout ing that the US will not allow the persecution of peace-loving Ukrainian democrats (he was alluding on the OUN heirs,not on the Russian minority ) .

 

Props to LJAd for continuing to provide us with "Hysterical reactions"

and

You see, I find his "reaction" "hysterical"(Extremely funny) because, in his misguided attempt to vilify the Ukrainians as mass-murderers of Poles...He has conveniently forgotten that the Russian/Soviet NKVD easily murdered double the number of Poles that he claims the Ukrainians murdered(100,000).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD_%281937%E2%80%9338%29#Scale_of_the_Polish_Operation_and_its_victims
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_prisoners-of-war_in_the_Soviet_Union_after_1939#Polish_generals_killed_by_the_Soviets_in_1939-1945
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_%281939%E2%80%9346%29

Keep it up LJAd...You are a laugh riot.

 

This is a strawman : the discussion is not about the crimes of the Cheka,which are well-known,but about the crimes of the OUN,which are still brushed aside : it should be a well-known fact that after the war thousands of persons with a very dubious past succeeded in emigrating to the US,because their claims that they were innocent victims of communist repression,claims which were eagerly accepted by a lot of gullible persons in the US.

The truth is also that during more than 50 years these persons were ruminating their glorious actions and that at the first occasion (independence of Ukraine)their heirs (Svoboda/right section) returned to Ukraine to finish the unfinished job of their ancestors(at least,this was the not unjustified perception of the Russian minority,who was unwilling to undergo the fate of the Poles and the Jews .)

Bringing the crimes of the Cheka in the discussion is the old Tu Quoque tactic,which indicates that one's position is desperate .

 

It's no strawman LJAd...You vilify the side that you do not support by claiming that they killed some 100,000 Poles. Yet, the side that you do support has killed far more Poles than that.

This is not Tu Quoque, this is a double standard...

I also take it you do not know the meaning of Tu Quoque, or else you would not be trying to vilify the Ukrainians for their, by your own admission, past infractions against the Poles...As it is irrelevant to your argument.

Come to think of it what is your argument...Other than to rant against the Ukrainians?

Bringing the past crimes of the Ukrainians into the discussion is the old Tu Quoque tactic,which indicates that one's position is desperate .