The Waffen SS and S.D. in todays Middle East.

Erich: I had not seen much news today--just listened to the radio. Two friends of mine just emailed me today that they got back from Germany a few hours before the first hijacking--thank god. My friends husband was a German Artillery Officer who had volunteered to serve on the Uboats but was refused.

This same man, worked on the rocket programs with Werner von Braun.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Evans:

Let me make sure this is said clearly. No I do not believe that atrocities should be comitted, I simply said in more words, that the Holy Bible says: "An Eye For An Eye". This means that according to the Holy Scripture, that an eye for an eye basically means giving back some of what we recieved. Nobody has ever said that new atrocities should be comitted, simply that we do NEED to pay them back some of what they sent our way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, now... That's Old Testament. The part you were supposed to forget about after reading the "Turn the other cheek" bit in the New Testament...
The perps must be caught, properly tried and HANGED, as per Nuremberg, for these are surely crimes against humanity...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now, my references to do with the Waffen SS and the S.D. are that we need men and leaders like they had who werent afraid of "getting the job done" by whatever means available.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woo... You mean like killing everybody in sight, regardless of combatant status, burning their homes, stealing their goods & food, packing the "survivors" off to the crematoriums...
And the SD?
Trumping up charges to get innocents executed; killing dozens of innocents in "retaliation" for the "crimes" of partisans engaged in the desperate struggle to strike back at unprovoked invasion?
Egad, man!
I cannot believe I am hearing a call for the darkest forces of nazi evil to be "resurrected" for the fight against whomever commmited the recent atrocity against innocent Americans...
You mentioned Russian atrocities earlier... Who invaded whom? Who called Who "Subhuman", worthy of naught but slavery and death?
You bet the Russians "paid back" the German atrocities. Perhaps it doesn't make it morally right, but neither would it be to use nazi-style solutions like rounding up all Arabic-Americans, sewing a yellow crescent to their clothes, denying them civil rights, locking them in "work camps", then turning on the gas and the furnaces...
We'll get our justice, but if its done as you seem to espouse then we've already sunk below the moral levelof our adversaries!

 

Dear Killjoy, not at all. In references to using the famous and correct Waffen SS units, I guess we can change the units I picked--how about the 1st Inf Div, The Big Red One, the 2nd Inf Div, the 3rd Inf Div, The Blue and White Devils, the 4th Inf Div, the Ivy Patchers, the 29th I.D, The Bloody Bucket Div, the 36th I.D. The T-Patchers, the 1st Armored Div, Hell on Wheels etc etc . I simply listed the Waffen SS as an example. Their fighting spirit, not murdering spirit.

One thing seems to be forgotton is that they were not all murders, very few in fact. Most were not even nazis who were in the Wehrmacht mainly in the ALLGEMEINE SS, te SA and crap orgs likke those.

I am friends with many former soldiers of the Wehrmacht, and know many more. Only one, was a nazi--a Belgian nazi.

I do think that these terroristic pricks need to be tought a lesson or this WTC attack will not be their last.

If I had the proper time tonight, I would have thought out a much better reply to this. The library is now closed--I will try to be back tomorrow.

 

i do not agree either. atrocities are never justifiable or understandable. Do not quote the bible, since the bible (and the koran) are books that cause these kinds of atrocities. Religion should be bannished altogether, it would make a safer world. How can religion condone an "eye for an eye" policy and at the same time prohibit the use of condoms or the right to an abortion (as long as it is within a time period before the embryo becomes life). The bible is a book full of contradictions. the Koran is even worse.

PS. this may sound harsh, but I can just not agree with people following some ancient book that might be no more then a novel.


PS2. my condoleances to all americans. I hope that we will be able to knock out terrorism altogether one day.

 

Mart I agraa with you, How can a religion condone the "An Eye For An Eye?" From what little I know about religions is that religion is man-made, not invented by the Holy Spirit. There CAN be a major argument in that phrase that we are discussing.

I for one, do firmly believe in what the Bible says, I also do firmly believe in the good lord and do firmly believe in a Heaven. Nothing said especially in these days and times could ever change my mind on these just mentioned beliefs.

As is known here, I do have a VERY open mind on what people say here--thats how we learn. I was raised somewhat religiously and are glad for it. No I am no fanatic by any means nor am I being called one be anyone. I do believe in religion and will always support it--the world NEEDS something good to believe in. Many people doubt the existance of God, I do believe there is a God.

I respect your opinions on religion and how you feel about religion. I am never one to knock another for their beliefs in something and I know you arent knocking me for my beliefs. I think it is wellknown how I stand on many matters and I welcome comments.

Take care--Carl.

 

Carl :

I agree with you, but we all must remember that a god was not responsible for what happened just last week. Evil men took it upon themselves to present destruction on the eastern seaboard. Not just one man but a group of extremist's. All American's are lashing out , even blaiming each other and God as they percieve Him. WE need to get a grip and stay united and pray for our President/government to make the right decisions that will affect the USA and possibly the world.

E

 

Aliens.


Aliens have the key to all our worldly problems. they will make the earth stand united against a new possible threat from the universe. Religious beliefs can be thrown away the moment that these aliens explain to us how the universe was created, where we come from etc etc.

They hold the key to the end of our craving for selfdestruction.

 

Erich, thanks and I agree.

Mart, thats very interesting...

This is in the news here.

Apparently, someone somewhere saw out of a photo of smoke coming from the WTC, in that photo, they saw an image of the devil.

I just saw the photo today for the first time and even though the image of the devil--horns trident and all, plus pointed tail I might add Even with it outlined, it still merely looked like a pall of smoke to me. Imaginations are running rampant--as the Bavarian lions.

I HAVE to laugh at such "imaginations" heck--I guess you can say that I believe I AM Napoleon.

((Does anyone know where I can get hold of one of Nappy's Uniforms?? Oh and I guess I will heva to dye my Blonde hair to Black, and my Blue eyes to brown.........

 

Carl :

It will be interesting to see what happens tonight via President Bush's speech......

I'm gone till Monday night bud.

See ya,

Erich

 

Het there, glad to see you about here. I have been alone and when I type all I hear are the echos echos echos of my typing.

Oh I believe he isnt asking Congress for war, so I bet amost of what is planned will be covert Ops. I sure wish something physical would happen soon, if not to give those jerks a taste of things to come, but also something for US to cheer about. ((Uh oh, I think I just opened another "can of worms"))

By the way, I will be attempting to send Dietsches photos again tonight, I dont think the last time was successful. These will be from my Kriegsmarine email address. So if you see something other than Laughingsawfish, then you know its mine.

Hope the few days away, is relazing for you..."see" you again on Montag mein freund.

Take care--yours-Carl.

 

C, you and the rest of the American people may have to wait some time for something to cheer about, but that does not mean that things are not being done. Infact, it would surprise me if things are not being done already. Wars against terrorisim are not fought by the troops on the ground that everyone can see, but by the guys you cannot see.

 

Hello Bish, I do agree with you. Many many people--spurred on by our TV and Radio Media, do expect and had expected to see the missiles start flying. I admit, I wanted that too but, after my initial anger started to abate a bit and I began to see more clearly, I have remembered something that history has tought many of us but, perhapse not enough of us.

Apparently, many have not learned just from some of Americas past wars, that this will not be quick, easy or clean.

For example, our War of Independance, many then, thought that the King did not have the stomach to fight for Colonys--and boy-were we wrong.

The War of 1812, they again thought it would be quick and easy--and again we were wrong.

The War with Mexico--a few Campaigns and is would send the Mexicans running--wrong again.

The US Civil War--it will be over in a few weeks or months at best--four years later, it finally ended with the defeat of the Confederacy--and again, we were wrong.

WW1--it will be over quick boys--how wrong we were--again.

Finally, in ww2, we finally began to understand that wars are not quick and easy.

The Korean War, we began to forget what history tought us.

We did forget during the Vietnam War. Im hopeing that we will not forget for this new fight. I never thought it wouls be over in one strike and mainly because there are no fixed Battlelines, but rather digging these people out of their caves and wherever else they may have infested.

I agree with you 100% Bish, and I certainly do hope, that England does not have to call on your services.

I have many friends and know many others, who are in the US Military, British Military, German Military, Swiss Military and Sweedish Militarys, and I do hope that they all come back and in good order.

I lost two friends during the Gulf War, I dont want to lose anymore. Currently, I do know a few friends who are being recalled. One is a Lt.Col in the USAF, one is a Gunny Sergeant in the USMC, one is a Green Beret Major, and the final so far was in the US Armys Rangers, as a sniper.

My frustrations with this thing happening is in the way of not being able to contribute anything phtsical for my country. I was born with Asthema, and one lung does not get air into it because of complicatione I had when I had Double Pneumonia (spelling?) when I was 17. My left lung is not usable, though it still on occasion, gets some air into it and when it does, it is extremely painful.

I tried for 10 years to join the military--it was all I ever wanted. Well, I was turned down every time. Im so frustrated that I cannot and are not allowed to contribute anything for my country.

They say that having resolve is enough--not for me it aint. Oh I will always support our cause without waivering, but I want to do something physical to be able to pitch in.

Yesterday, I was driving down a street, and some Firemen were holding up donation boots for the Firemen/victims and families in New York.

I opened my wallet, and all I had on me was an embarassing .22 cents two pennies and two dimes. The Firman thanked me for it and blessed me. I told him that I will have to go to my bank to get some money and will come back to give them some.

So I went about the business I had to do, and then I went to get some money from the bank. I came back, and the Firemen had left (I didnt realize that they left so they couls eat lunch) I then went to have some lunch myself, and when I went back to where these Firemen were, I donated a large note including about another $1.00 in change.

Financially it hurt me to donate what I did, but, those Firemen and their families need it more than I do.

Every time I see them out collecting, even well before this tragedy happened, I always contributed what I could and will continue to do so.

I will tell you about something that I heard on the radio yesterday which pissed me off. A very wellknown radio personality made a snobbish remark that he tried his best to weedle out of when this Englishwoman called to his show and confrionted him about it.

What the radio personality had said was: "England is beside us all the way, and our strongest supporter but, thats because they know they are next."

We all know that his stated reason is Bullsh**. When he said that I was VERY pissed off. The Englishwoman called in and said: "How DARE you make such an accusation!"

The radio personalith was thus forced to defend himself by saying she took it the wrong way--and she misheard what he said--she heard correctly what he said as did I.

Finally after his several minute tirade, he finally almost admitted hew was wrong but, still weedled out of it. It was great to hear a Brit, show him up. This radio personality in one by the name of Rush Limbaugh.

Years ago I listened to him and usually agreed with him on many things--especially when he bashed clinton. I soon began to get sick of even his clinton bashing and quit listening to his dribble.

I only listened to a few minute of his radio show yesterday only because I was waiting for the local radio program to start. This local guy is Eric von Wade, and his show is much much more enlightened and much fairer on things. He has had interviewes with Margeret Thatcher, Benjamin Netanyahu (Spelling?) and I think with Tony Blair--among others...

I have always known that we should listen to them especially Benjamin Netanyahu, because they all have had more experiance with these types of things than Americans have had. I hate to think that they do not listen.

Sorry for my tirade, I basically just wanted to thank you for your nice post and that I agree with you. Also I want to say, God save the Queen and God bless America and God bless England and all of our friends from around the world.

Take care Bish, and hope to "see" you here more often.

 

I think the nearest thing i can think of that this war will be like is that in Northern Ireland. So far, i have spent four and a half years there. But the conventinal troops see very little action. We are a good diversion, and a symbol that something is being done. And all the time it is the guys in the shadows that are fighting the war. I think this will be the same. We may get some conventinal action. This will please the public and keep the bad guys on their toes. But the real work goes on unnoticed. I cannot see my services being called on yet, i am in an armoured infantry battalion, and i do not think armour is the way to go here. As for Britain being with you in this, i would like to think there are two good reasons. Firstly, we are two countries whos historys are linked. Not always plesently, as you aften remind us , but we are brothers. And second, we owe you guys more than we could ever repay. I come from east anglia. there are plenty of things there to remind us of the sacrifices made by American boys. In fact, the base were i trained was the airbase were Memphis Bell was stationed, and it has one of many mamorials to US airman. In fact, i remember when i was a kid, my dad told me of an incident that happened in the war. Norfolk, the county i am from, had more airbases than any other, including many with B-24s. there was one plane that was returning badly damaged. there was no chance to reach a base. But rather than bail out, the whole crew stayed with the plane. The pilot fought to keep the plane crashing into houses and gided the craft into waiste ground, and all on board were killed. he onec talk me to a plaque that had been put up in their memory, and i will never forget that story. Also, a few years ago, the main libary in Norwich burnt down. the main thing i was concerned about was the large section dedicated to the 8th Air force. Fortunatly, they managed to save it. So, i have been brought up with the knowledge that we owe a great debt to you guys. Providing the cause is just, i am one Englishman who is happy to fight for America. And this is about the best just cause i have seen in a long time.

 

Dear Bish, many thanks for the kind words, and I feel as you do--England and the USA are brothers and will always be so.

Due to lack of time today, I will be short on reply, but will give a better on as soon as I can.

I certainly hope you and as many as possible do not have to fight--I would also be worried as you are a part of this forums community and I consider each person here a great big family.

Take care and I will try to give aproper reply tomorrow or later this week--yours-Carl.

 

Bish, finally im back.

I think you are totally correct and I feel the same way. As far as I would think at whats happening is that they will be using our Rangers and Green Berets, The S.A.S. Navy Seals etc-for most of the behind the scenes doings.

A friend of mine is a Green Beret Major, who had an office at the Pentagon. I suspect he will be doing something very soon if he hasnt done something yet.

Personally, I am glad the Govt is not saying many things yet because we dont need CNN blabbering every move that is to be made just so the terrorists can make changes and moves. I remember what happened when the Marines landed in Somalia. Someone told CNN that a landing was going to take place at a certain time and place, and guess what? some jerko of a reporter met the invading Marines with lights blaring from the camera. And had there been some of the bad Somalians hiding there, they could have done alot of damage and killed many Marines just because of those stupid jerko reporters. I also think that the Govt should have made CNN pay somekind of a fine, for what they did.

 

You are right about the press. was'nt that a problem in Vietnam. All the people at home going against it because of the iameges on tele. And the last thing a sqaddie needs is some idiot putting a camera in his face.

 

Your correct Bish, and the same thing is sort of going on now.

Get this, just last night on talk radio, I think it was the Michael Medved show. He has a 20 yr old bimbo of a guest on his show by the name of Susan.

This idiotic tramp, firmly believes that America and England fought ww2 so we could gain territories and to help the Germans beat stalin--to her stalin was a hero. I thought i had seen and heard stupid statements in my time, but this bimbo really took the cake.

I never thought someone could say something as stupid as this gal did. She almost went as far as condoning the WTC attacks and further saying that this whole thing is just Bush and Blairs way of starting another war against the helpless innocent Afgan females and babies.

Furthermore, this dumbass, stated that the USa and England are still targeting innocents in Iraq, and Kosovo. Im ashamed to admit that this dumb female...is born an American. Another miss communist jane fonda.

We have a wellknown college university in California known as Berkely. Those people are nothing but gutless freaks and are hard leftwingers. I would love to give those protestors there some knuckle sandwitches, I need to practice on mu knuckle drill. it makes me so mad to hear of these freaks

Sorry for this way in answering your question. Many of the nam war protestors are starting their crap again, and many of the hippies are now Drs and Lawyers and Teachers--spouting their poison on people who mostly do not want to hear it.

 

Don't worry, we have the same. Some Lib-Dem politician at their conferance the other day said the only thing we should bomb Afghanistan with is bread. Sure, we should help the innocent people that are suffering because of this, thanks to their goverment, but i would like to know what she thinks we should do about Bin Larden. maybe drop in a couple of New York cops to arrest him. These people just do not have a clue.
As for helping the Germans beat Stalin, thats a new one. So what is her excuse for the fact that we turned our supposed ally Germany into a rubble heap. Soime people just have no idea.
You will have to excuse my absence, i am off to gunnery camp in Wales tomorrow for a week, so i look forward to more discussion when i get back.

 

Dear Bish, no problem and hope Gunnery School is a blast (no pun intended) for you and your mates.

I have no idea where that bimbo comes up with this info. This airhead is involved with some organization that supposedly started in Sweden or somewhere like that.

From what I could gather, this bimbo is a college dropout, her parents do not support her actions, she works at some fastfood joint like McDonalds, and supposedly volunteers all her sparetime into being very stupid. I think next week they are supposedly going to have 100,000 people do a protest march in front of the White House--we will see just how many of the proported 100,000, will actually show up.

This broad is a poseur, a loser, and just flat out stupid. I hope she isnt good looking, she did have a cute sounding voice

Looking forward to you returning here after Gunnery practice. Take care mate.

 

Terrorist wars.. we've had our share. I grew up in the aftermath and the terrorist group dissolved officially only a few years ago. They were called the RAF (NOT Royal Air Force, Rote Armee Fraktion - Red Army Fraction). They were communists of course and probably secretly communist-funded.

There are some things we learned about them during our war against them.

1. They are highly intelligent. You can expect far above average IQs and their behaviour is congruent with this. They plan meticulously and are very capable of hiding or just disappearing. Usually they will have safe houses in several countries.

2. They may have public support, even strong support in some areas. The RAF started off with lots of public support because they went only after 'capitalist exploiters' meaning heads of banks and businesses. But they grew increasingly careless about who they shot and after they started killing these people's bodyguards, drivers and workers too they lost all public support. It can be done here, too.

3. They can be beaten. It took us two decades to suppress them and another to finish them off, it may take even longer here, where WE have no infrastructure.

4. No civilised country wants something to do with terrorists. All RAF members who fled to the USSR when their cover was blown were turned back.

5. Terrorists always have all the options and have many more possibilities than the people who hunt them. To hunt them you need to have a network better than theirs, and that is difficult. Most of all you need human resources.

6. You could nuke all of Afghanistan and not even eliminate the problem because the HQ could be in New York itself.

[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Andreas Seidel ]