Human catastrophe

How is that not irrelevant?

You claimed the UK would be "defenceless" without an aircraft carrier. You have yet to show how that the current lack of an aircraft carrier has created a hole that threatens the very existence (which is what i would expect, were a country truly "defenceless") of the UK. Just raising the issue as leaving the UK "defenceless" is alarmist hyperbole.

You just don't want to admit you are wrong; that the budget prioritizes what is important, and for GB, housing is not important enough. You want GB to have an aircraft carrier. Fine. But don't pretend GB is "defenceless" without one. I heard a rumour, the second aircraft carrier might go straight into mothballs... sounds like a fantastic way to spend money. It is all about priorities. I'm actually shocked that the UK thinks it needs an aircraft carrier, at enormous expense, and at serious detriment to the rest of the armed forces. Because the cost doesn't stop with the aircraft carrier itself, but all the supporting vessels needed to keep such a boat safe and operative.

Granted, it is now too late to stop the insanity that is the new UK aircraft carrier, and reverse the harm already done to HM armed forces by the purchase of such. It was, however, an example, of how much money the UK actually has, and chooses to spend on other line items than housing. The housing crisis has been a long time coming, its not suddenly arrived.

Another interesting line item is the cost of the UK's interest on their debt was ca £24 Billion.

 

Look at the following (from the Breitbart site): "The 5 awkward questions they won't answer about the drowned boy,Syria and our moral duty " .

Think on the following question :
Why should a family of Syrian Kurds living in Istanbul (they had left Syria BEFORE the war) try to go to Greece illegally using a very dangerous way,while they could travel openly and legally to Greece,as are doing every day thousands of people ?

The only thing we have is the picture of the body of the child on the beach and the story of the father .

 

The latest news is that the father of the drowned child (the picture of whom is been used to culpabilise European public opinion) has been accused of

being a human trafficker

being the captain of the ship

being responsible for the death of the passengers by his reckless sailing

Of course,the reaction of the media will be a deafening silence

 

When I'm actually wrong, I usually admit it.
However, what you are peddling is naive, simplistic BS straight out of the summer of love, with an irrelevant dig at Iraq and Afghanistan just to prove you're shit-stirring for the sake of it.
Your "point" is irrelevant; Britain needs defences.

 

More on that here-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3230422/Abdullah-Kurdi-people-smuggler-migrant.html

 

The article discussed recent immigrants from the middle east and only from the middle east, from the congressional committee only looking at immigrants from the middle east. How you can confuse those clear statements is beyond me.

Really? I haven't heard any UN announcements from New Zealand to the effect that they'd take any of them. I've heard silence. Except from you, with the opinion that everyone else should take them.

 

No, you've obviously taken umbrage at the example provided, and not actually argued about the point at all.

Britain needs a defence, that is not denied, but you've yet to prove your claim that Britain without an aircraft carrier is defenceless.

 

No, I think every immigrant should come in legally and get paid the same as anyone else for work, and have the the same rights and dignity of any other visitor or citizen of the US. If it was up to me I would shut down the southern border, but at the same time I'd put money into a guest worker program that vastly increased legal workers. And those who came in legally and worked while staying clear of criminal activities (most of them) would earn points for citizenship. I'd hammer employees who hired illegal workers. It is that illegality that steals the rights and dignity (and reasonable pay) of illegal immigrants.

The thing is that people from Mexico and Central America have a similar culture. They fit into our society very well and always have. They are and have been part of our society for nearly 200 years.

If we take anyone from the middle east it should be Kurds, Yazidis and these Christian minorities. These are the people experiencing a real holocaust. We shouldn't be bringing in members of the groups that are creating the holocaust.

 

Now you talk about "recent immigrants". Your statement was blanket, sweeping generalisation, and indeed you misquoted Breitbart.

You stated, as quoted above, that 91% of ME immigrants are on food stamps, when Breitbart clearly stated 91% of ME recent refugees were on food stamps....

As the term "immigrants" is not equivalent to refugee, one can only assume you confused the two. But you're not going to want to hear that.

 

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, but knew it was coming.
"An ISIS terrorist posing as an “asylum seeker” has been arrested by German police in a “refugee” center in Stuttgart, and German customs officers have seized boxes containing Syrian passports being smuggled into Europe.
According to a report carried by RTL’s German language service, the terrorist is a 21-year-old Moroccan using a “false identity” who had registered as an asylum seeker in the district of Ludwigsburg. He was identified after police linked him to a European arrest warrant issued by the Spanish authorities. He is accused of recruiting fighters for ISIS, where he acted as a contact person for fighters who wanted to travel to Syria or Iraq."
http://newobserveronline.com/isis-terrorist-arrested-in-stuttgart-refugee-center-boxes-of-fake-syrian-passports-intercepted/

 

You keep telling yourself that.

 

Thanks I will, until you actually provide a counterpoint.

 

Kodiak, you are mixing illegal immigration with legal immigration which most of the refugees fall under. The fact is that bad people exist everywhere. It's just a terrible situation. Btw, ever run into a Latino gang? They exist in the US.

I do know that Affton MO would be a slum if it weren't for refugees. A number of them are muslim. For being inner city basically, the crime rate there is below the national average in a City (St. Louis) where crime is a huge problem.

Affton crime stats: http://www.homefacts.com/crime/Missouri/St.-Louis-County/Affton.html

Overall crime stats St. Louis: http://www.homefacts.com/crime/Missouri/St.-Louis-City-County/St.-Louis.html

 

A refugee is an immigrant. There is a minority of educated and skilled people coming in under normal immigration channels, but most of the people from the ME are refugees with no skills at all. They may be defined as "economic refugees" if you care to, but they are all immigrants. the vast majority are capable of working, but aren't doing so.

Oddly (or not) the millions of immigrants coming across our southern borders present very few problems, and the majority of problems created are by our own immigration policies, not by them. Since we don't have any border enforcement and no worker program, we have no way of vetting who comes across. A few illegal immigrant thugs making the news paints them all as thugs. And when those who just want to work get here, we have no way of enforcing labor laws so that they are treated fairly.

In February, ISIS said they would flood Europe with their own. 73% of those coming across right now are young single men. There is no way to know how many of them are ISIS plants, but I have a feeling Europe will soon realize the horrible mistake they've made.

 

I'll repeat what I just said above. In February, ISIS promised to flood Europe with their own. 73% of the "refugees" are young single Arab men. Coincidence?

 

it's clearly dated (August 2002), but the information is interesting:

http://cis.org/MiddleEasternImmigrantsProfile

"Middle Eastern immigrants are one of the most educated immigrant groups in America. In 2000, 49 percent had at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives."

"While many Middle Easterners are well-educated and prosperous, a significant share are poor and make use of America's welfare system. In 2000, nearly one in five Middle Eastern immigrants and their young children lived in poverty, compared to about one in 10 natives; 23 percent used at least one major welfare program, compared to only 15 percent of natives."

"While only 10 percent of immigrants are self-employed compared to 11 percent of natives, 19 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants own their own businesses."

I wonder how much it has changed in the 13 years since?

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/middle-eastern-and-north-african-immigrants-united-states (June 2015):

"Compared to the overall foreign- and native-born populations, MENA immigrants on average are significantly higher educated, but are much less likely to be employed, and have lower household incomes. Although many MENA countries share similar religious and linguistic backgrounds, there are great variations in socioeconomic characteristics among different MENA immigrant groups in the United States."

"In 2013, 43 percent of MENA immigrants (ages 25 and over) had a bachelor’s degree or higher, compared to 28 percent of all immigrants and 30 percent of native-born adults. "

"In 2013, about 58 percent of MENA immigrants ages 16 and over were in the civilian labor force, compared to 67 percent and 63 percent of the total foreign- and native-born populations, respectively. Meanwhile, approximately 44 percent of female MENA immigrants were in the civilian labor force, compared to the overall female foreign-born (56 percent) and U.S.-born (59 percent) populations, possibly attributable to the conservative culture of many Muslim countries. Male MENA immigrants in general participated in the civilian labor force (70 percent) at a rate similar to the total foreign-born population with a notable exception—only around 28 percent of male immigrants from Saudi Arabia were in the U.S. civilian labor force."

"MENA immigrants had lower incomes compared to the total foreign- and U.S.-born populations. In 2013, the median income of households headed by an immigrant from the MENA region was $43,000, compared to $48,000 and $53,000 for total foreign- and native-born households, respectively."

 

May be or may not be. Have you thought that maybe, just maybe it could be also because young men are strong enough to make that trip? The families also could send their young men to seek better life so that they could maybe send some money to their family members who stayed behind. After all young men has probably the best possibilities to survive the trip and maybe even get job where they end up and bring their rest of the family to them later. This isn't the case with elderly people, women and not to mention with children.

But, you could be totally right and I do think that better control over them should be in place if that's even possible. I sitting on the fence about this whole issue or how do you say that in English if one can't make his mind...

 

Has it occurred to you that those same men should be fighting for their own country? They are betraying their communities and I wouldn't want such people in my country.

 

Which side? Government or some of the several opposing or terrorist groups? Fighting for their country in the country where no one knows who is fighting and for what. Maybe the common people doesn't know who is fighting for their country and who against it.

 

Right... Because not fighting for Assad is betraying your community....

Or not fighting for ISIS is betraying your community....

Or not fighting for some local FSA leader, that recently switched sides from some other faction is betraying your community...

Or not fighting for a gang of criminals that kidnap foreigners and sell them to ISIS for profit is betraying your community.

Yep. Makes sense.