Human catastrophe

Y'know, your sanctimonious, sarcastic tone isn't doing anything to further this conversation. I know this is all the rage nowadays, to treat other people on the internet as mere "robots" who have no feelings and are really not "real" because they're on a screen, but it grows rather tiresome. Bring some respect to the conversation instead of snark and you might find a better response.

 

Snark runs both ways in this conversation.

 

Oh but that explains it all then! Now it's all well and good and actually that little boy got what he deserved, right?

 

NO ONE is saying that. But the media is using that picture to shape a narrative.

Honestly. The type of baseless assumption you made is why the internet is the very worst place to have any type of civil debate.

 

Of course they are and always has. That is their job.

Baseless assumption I made? Did you not read my original post where I just expressed my sadness over this little boy who was not guilty on anything that happened to him and what kind of comments followed? Nothing but ridiculing and dismissing.

 

I saw no one saying that this little boy's death was anything other than tragic. I also did not see ANYONE saying what you assumed with this phrase right here: "Now it's all well and good and actually that little boy got what he deserved, right?"

If I am in error, please point me to the post where the person said that "this little boy got what he deserved" as you are insinuating.

 

But if we removed all the Strawmen, then there wouldn't be a thread!!

 

I see the little boy as part of the human story,....natural, ...death, destruction, war, etc.....now when I saw the Chinese lady get sucked into the elevator, I thought that was tragic....that's not ''natural''

 

Please calm down. If you wanted people to simply chime in about how terrible this is and tell you that they agree with you. You should have posted on a mainstream media like twitter. The members of this forum try to impartially discuss a war in which entire cities disappeared overnight.

Is the death of a child a terrible thing? Of course. However as Bronk7 has stated that's nothing new. My questions, which you apparently considered dismissive, were to find out if you brought something to the topic other than heartbreak and outrage. I have, perhaps unfortunately, become rather suspicious of narratives based mainly on emotion. America has been under a consistent barrage of emotional narratives that exaggerate and distort the truth or outright lie simply to promote a political agenda or sell more newspapers.

If I've offended you I'm sorry but as I alluded to earlier the death of 2 boys has been used to shift the political stance of hundreds of millions of people. Not because of a logical and reasoned argument but because of a visceral response to seeing those photos. The photo's have shifted the discussion from a debate over the effects the immigrants will have on the nations in which they settle. To the premise (as your quote seems to imply) that you must have hated those 2 innocent little boys, were responsible for their deaths and you should be ashamed of yourself if you continue to refuse the refugees.

 

Sad but true.

 

Maybe I took the pictures as media or whoever wants people to take them, too emotionally. You haven't offended me so no need to say you're sorry If I think this whole issue rationally then of course you are right and I mostly agree with you. I haven't grown in barrel and I know what is going on in the world.

And for that quote. I wasn't assuming or trying to suggest that rest of you would think that way.

 

If I may be so bold as to comment on this. Surely narratives based on emotion are nothing new in western media? Part and parcel of modern existence requires people to filter evidence and statements. In WW1 it was atrocities of the Hun. There is not a news story today that doesn't try to play the human angle.

We may have even witnessed in this thread narratives that "exaggerated truths".

But to re-examine my original premise; the EU, with a population well in excess 500 million, (and an aging population at that) could easily absorb another 500,000. In fact, it desperately needs to find new citizens, or pensions are going to get out of control fast (another debate altogether).

The reaction to which, is that "they're lazy, dole-bludgers" and "there's bad eggs there (terrorists)",

Well, we've shown that they weren't quite as lazy as assumed.
Bad eggs exist everywhere; the European states are quite well-equipped to handle them. The US has handled all sorts of bad eggs from Europe (Mobsters, Criminals, and terrorists and lowlifes in general when people were fleeing Europe for a better life) as I indicated. Europe owes the world big time.

And finally: NZ has for years said it would take 750 refugees. Yes a pitiful sum, I agree. Last year, however a mere 388 applied. Of which, only 100 were granted asylum. Like I've repeatedly said, no one wants to go to the edge of the map.

 

They know.

 

Maybe someone else posted this, but it does explain Germany's situation and much of the western world. Due to low birth rates, we have a huge demographic problem that can't be solved without people having more kids or immigration. China is the huge problem.

Lot's of reason for the demographic problem. Selfishness, costs, Roe v Wade and so on.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-in-ageing-germany-refugees-seen-as-tomorrows-skilled-workers-2015-9

This is a HUGE problem.

 

“Half an hour ago on the border between Italy and Austria i saw a huge crowd of immigrants. With all solidarity to people in difficult circumstances I have to say that what I saw arouses horror.This huge mass of people – sorry – but it’s an absolute wilderness … Vulgar, throwing bottles, shouting “We want Germany”. So what, Germany is now a paradise?

I saw an elderly Italian woman in a car that was surrounded by the immigrants. They pulled her by the hair out of the car and wanted to use it to go to Germany. They tried to topple the bus i was in. They threw feces at us, banging on the door for the driver to open it, spat on the glass. My question is- for what purpose? How do they want to assimilate in Germany? For a moment, i felt like in a warzone. I really feel sorry for these people, but if they would reach Poland – I do not think they would receive any understanding from us.

We spent three hours on the border, but failed to get through. The whole group was later transported back to Italy by the police. The bus is butchered, feces smeared, scratched, broken windows. And this is supposed to be an idea for the demographics? These big powerful hordes?

Among them there were almost no women and children – the vast majority was aggressive young men. Just yesterday I read the news on all the websites with real compassion, worried about their fate and today after what I saw I am just afraid. And I am happy they do not choose our country as their destination. We Poles are simply not ready to accept these people – neither culturally nor financially. I do not know if anyone is ready. A giant pathology is approaching the EU, one which we have never seen before. And sorry if anyone is offended by this entry.

A car with humanitarian aid came. Food and water. They just toppled it and stole everything. With megaphones the Austrians announced a message that there is consensus for them to cross over the border – they wanted to register them and let them go on – but they did not understand these messages. None. And it was all the greatest horror … From those few thousand people nobody understood neither Italian nor English, or German, or Russian, or Spanish … What mattered was the law of the fist.

They fought for permission to move on, but they were already allowed to do so. They did not understand that! They broke into the French bus – everything was stolen in a short time. Never in my short life, I had no opportunity to watch such scenes and I feel that this is just the beginning. On a final note, it is worth helping, but not at any price.”

Translated from Polish in this article: http://niezalezna.pl/70607-granica-z-austria-wstrzasajaca-relacja-polaka-z-autokaru-napadnietego-przez-imigrantow

 

Article says its a taken directly from a blog, without further verification, there are also people in the comments denying the incident has ever happening:

"We check at checkpoints carabinieri in the Italian services from the area of ​​the road SS621, South Tyrol region of Bolzano and their Austrian counterparts. Everywhere Disclaimer: - Both we and the main command province of Bolzano we did not have such a notification. Neither in recent days, or sooner. Even more so in the area of ​​road SS621. This rural region where refugees would not have what to look for - says Francesco Bianco, police press officer at the Brenner border.

They are outraged by the Province of Bolzano. We strongly deny. Neither the road nor in the border region, nor in any other point there was no such incident. It's a nasty web of someone frivolous joke - declares Alex de Bianchi of the press office of the Provincia Autonoma di Bolzano / Alto Adige. He asks for a link to the entry Kamila and announced that it would take legal action."

 

Confused about Syria and Iraq? This guy raises some interesting points.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/09/what-hell-is-us-mission-in-syria.html

 

Well if narrative focused on emotions is to be expected then watch this. As it feels like he makes a lot of valid points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOLcMqdpls

By the way I agree the EU could sustain as many immigrants as it wanted. The question is would the EU be better off after they had done it and would the EU's culture shift in a better direction because of it.

 

There are hundreds of such incidents, well documented with photos and video. Not long ago, the Italian Coast Guard released statements about picking up a boat that had dropped all the Coptic Christians over the side on the way. I wouldn't want them as neighbors.

I would (and I hope my government does) take some of the ethnic and religious minorities that have been abused in the region - Copts, Kurds, Yazidis.

 

I agree these immigrants pose a huge security issue. ISIS and other radical Islamic groups can, are and will use these groups to help infiltrate their operatives into western countries. However, it's not just the Islamics that are a threat, PKK affiliated Kurd's are also a risk. They are a violent group with strong Marxist-Leninist ideology.