Terror Deaths in Paris

Still under shock at this and not thinking clearly, was in Paris a lot lately and some of those place names are quite familiar.

That the terrorists would attempt something like this is not a surprise, my only hope was that intelligence would catch them before the fact.

Hitting the French, that are possibly the only ones left attempting to uphold western moral principles is below contempt.

 

please look at this headline pic and check post 989 in Human Catastrophe thread----allow me to quote my point in 989

'''WE ARE AT WAR'''

less than 24 hours after I posted that quote, we get this headline THIS IS WAR...read 989 again--points proven

 

what will it take for people to open their eyes?? a bio attack with hundreds of thousands affected?? a city destroyed with a nuke?? after the Pearl Harbor attack, they really got serious on the dawn-dusk patrols....a little late, no?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM The best part of a top 5 of all time movie.

 

truly horrible...again. I hope all the best to the families who lost a member and fast recovery to those who were injured.Unfortunately the mental injuries can be hard to mend. My thoughts are with you! Sick cowards who did this!

 

Home guard time again folks. Indeed what will it take Vive Le France.

 

KB, we have been touting this to anyone lending half an ear for what 18 months now, since before the Fall of Mosul. Maybe fools will listen now. The Peshmerga, PKK and YPG, YPJ, HPG have been getting supplies through back channels - maybe like Charlie Wilson's War or the like for sometime. Joint Kurd and Ezidi's just make a nice liberation in Sinjar so IS has to pull this Friday 13th attack to diminish the fact that their main logistic route from Raqqa to Mosul is now pretty effectively cut. Hopefully also - farewell to Jihadi "Jackass" John.

French Foreign Legion perhaps in the air at this moment. We shall see.

Pres. Hollande speaks to Parliament at Versailles on Monday. French public buildings and museums on lock down and guarded by Regular Armee. Borders sealed, Belgium as well. This is the future? About to get real, Brave New (Coward Attacks) World.

 

Damned right we are. It's a very odd thing to have these groups declare war on us, while our governments pretend it's some sort of criminal matter. Not only that, but our strategy is ten years out of date. We're protecting (overprotecting) aircraft, so they'll just move onto softer targets as we saw in Paris yesterday. I'd expect some high speed train derailments - what could be easier? More attacks in nightclubs and concert venues. It isn't going to stop without wholesale killing followed by occupation - in Syria and northern Iraq, the Kurds should be given a green light for statehood. Kick Turkey out of NATO until they get back on track as a secular nation. Every Imam who shoots his mouth off about Sharia law should be arrested immediately for treason, or if not a citizen deported and that mosque closed down.

I doubt any of that will happen, but that's what needs to happen.

 

Kodiak, not trying to be argumentative, but I disagree with your premise. It simply isn't true.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/11/09/French-strike-hits-ISIS-oil-facility-in-Syria-French-defence-minister.html

 

There's a petition currently on FB calling for the UK Government to shut our borders and stop all immigration until ISIS is defeated. It's only about 5000 signatures short of 100,000, at which point it would be debated in Parliament.

 

This situation is horrible and gut wrenching. In my opinion, the west got used to proxy wars and the safety that brings. In Vietnam and Korea, the major powers prevented the smaller country or people within that country from broadening the war to the shores of the Soviets, Chinese, US, Australia and so on. It was contained there.

For one, ISIS isn't a major power proxy (OK there are those that think it was started directly by the US and others indirectly) A war against them is a fight to the death for them. They specifically warned the French, a warning the French did not heed and apparently they struck back. To someone who is in a fight to the death, does one think that hitting back only French targets on ISIS controlled air space or land is the only rule to play by?

I'm not defending ISIS by any stretch of the imagination. However, the West really needs to think through this. Are Muslims in the ME really out to conquer the world? Are they defending their area and their beliefs? Are they upset by US support to a totalitarian regime in the Saudi's where the average man has little rights and lives in fear? Why is the West so willing to go after the despot Assad and yet looked on in Rwanda? Is this about oil and oil pipelines? Is it about West corporate interests against Russia? Is this about Hezbollah and Israel? There is probably an element of "yes" to each of those yes/no questions. There is also likely an element of no.

There are just so many things beyond our pay grade to know the complete facts. We pretty much know the CIA warned the Admin about the coming 9-11 attacks. Did the Admin ignore it for reasons to go to war? Were they just no competent? Were they just too busy to be bothered? Probably yes/no could be fit in to some degree to each question.

I just hope there is a reasoned response to this. Maybe it's too late.Are we seeing 1936 to 1939 right before our eyes? The Russian's and Chinese are in fact challenging the West. The weapons of destruction are much bigger now than in the late 30s.

 

One of the things that I believe this forum has shown us is that their are like minded individuals all across the world and in many different countries. When we stand united we are the strongest force in the world and if nothing else I believe these attacks are uniting us. When we are united those who do us harm have every reason to fear.

KTK

 

Sorry, but it is true. They've taken in about 5 million Muslims (over 8% of their population is now Muslim!) and they are taking their share of this latest wave. When the smoke clears, the majority of these attackers will be found to be French Muslims, fed, housed and given a check by the French taxpayers. They will be the same losers that refuse to work, refuse to assimilate, march in protests demanding France renounce all liberties and institute Sharia law, burn cars and vandalize property for sport. No nation has been more tolerant than France.

 

That's great, but I doubt your politicians are any better than the empty suits that infest our congress. They're more likely to make some incremental intrusions into your liberties than to take any action against extremists.

 

Our do gooders maybe going down the wrong path entirely importing these refugees.

Do they really want to come here?

Would they rather not stay home if it was safe?

As someone who has travelled around the world I know that we are more comfortable when among our own. We seek out places where those from similar cultures gather.

Once we import different minded people into our society cultures clash.

Perhaps it would make more sense to eradicate the problems in the host countries rather than importing them.

Just some food for thought, as stated earlier there are many different dynamics at play here and it is not a simple problem.

But perhaps the solution is simple.

KTK

 

I totally get that. However, when one levels a lethal response (military action), the west doesn't recognize that to those on the receiving end are likely to respond in kind. Swinging a big stick to get one's point across is not a non-aggressive open response.

I'm not saying France's action was wrong. I am saying that a response should be and should have been a logical outcome. The rules on proxy wars have changed. Responses like this:https://www.facebook.com/usatoday/photos/a.100797840666.101835.13652355666/10153159883795667/?type=3&theater

are easy to cheer for but are we willing to pay the cost on our own soil again?

 

Ken and Kodiak-
I agree with you guys. As I think I've already said, my city recently announced they were bringing an unspecified number of Syrian refugees here before Christmas, and myself and everyone else who voiced legitimate concerns were instantly attacked by the bleeding hearts as supposedly being "racists". What made it more galling was the fact 90% of them didn't even live within 20 miles of Stirling, but when you pointed that out their FB profiles were mysteriously edited to remove their locations. A few of them even stated the local homeless weren't a priority, one going as far as saying "at least they have roofs over their heads, unlike those poor Syrians".
I'll let you ponder that one without comment.
To me THEY are the real problem; there's too many smug twats who disappeared up their own arses and know NOTHING about the real world as a consequence, but they're always at the forefront of any discussion due to their ability to shout louder than everyone else and therefore command more media attention. We have a "university" on our doorstep that's famous for turning out mouthpieces and not a lot else, and that's pretty much par for the course for British universities these days. If you want to stop extremists recruiting on campus, you need to reign in the National Union of Students; my old uni (Glasgow) voted against becoming affiliated with the NUS, and as a result people can get through courses without some nutter disrupting everything for their own self-aggrandisment.
I would call that a step in the right direction.

 

IMO the only way to solve this is boots on the ground, the attempts to wage war by proxy or by robot is what got us into the current mess. Closing the borders is a gesture, but not much more than that, we rely on international trade too much for it to be effective and could create just the sort of hopeless/homeless mass of people that is a fertile terrorist breeding ground.

Targeting and destroying the IS leadership and infrastructure is what we have been attempting to do up to now with no great results, we have huge firepower available, but not so good intelligence and are way too vulnerable to bad one.

The latest escalation by the terrorists is pretty clear, all western assets are a potential target, and there is no realistic way of protecting them all against fanatics that don't care a bit about losing their own lives. It may be interesting to know how many of the attackers are "home-grown" versus "imported", I wouldn't be surprised at most being of the second variety, but there is little doubt the masterminds are not in France so we need to root them out where they are.

 

1)Now we have a lot of posts ful of compassion and indignation, but within 2 weeks compassion and indignation will have disappeared: emotions are short-living .

2) What will happen ? Probably not much, given what happened after Charlie Hebdo : monday Hollande will parade as the symbol of the French unity (regional elections are coming close) and the French aircraft-carrier will sail away,probably ,as after Charlie Hebdo,far away from Syria.:to survive,Hollande needs the Muslim votes, and if French soldiers killed Muslims, he would pay for it af the elections .

3)France will receive a lot of hypocritical declarations of sympathy,and that's all : Merkel will not do anything : to survive she needs the Muslim votes and if Muslims were killed by German soldiers,.......Obama ? the less he will do, the better

4) Responsible are not only ISIS,but also the average French/European muslim,who refuses to condemn ISIS ,who refuses to fight against ISIS : hundreds of European "assimilated" Muslims have gone to the ME to fight WITH ISIS (in Belgium 61 of them have been killed).

5)Responsible are also the ruling Liberals whose answer on the terrorist attacks was to open the gates and to let enter more than 1 million potential terrorists .

6)Responsible are also the whole Muslim community(1.5 billion) who was not able to provide 500000 volunteers to eliminate the few tenthousands of ISIS murderers .The Turkish army alone, the Iranian army alone would have sufficed to eliminate ISIS.

7) What will bring the future ? I am afraid nothing good : the Trojan Horse has entered Europe :20 million of them and is blocking any response to a terrorist action ,and within less than 2 generations, they will rule Europe .

The only consolation I have is that I will no longer be here to see it .

 

In Syria, we have boots on the ground and a solution. The Kurds. Give them that region as a recognized state, arm them, give them air support and they'll mop up the whole area. Kick Turkey out of NATO and break them economically. I realize it's like whack-a-mole and they'll just pop up elsewhere, but we are at war and it's time we woke up to that fact.

One thing we haven't done, is struck at every Internet site they use. Phones, computers, tablets can be traced and we just ignore them. If that means paid assassins, then do that. If we can hit an isolated spot with a drone strike, then do that. There is also billions of dollars flowing in to these groups and that money can be traced, and we do nothing about that. If Omar X in Kuwait is pouring money into a channel, we can find somebody to shoot Omar in the head. We CAN shut down their funding and communications with very little effort.

It's a new kind of war that requires a different strategy, we only lack the political will to initiate that strategy. We do nothing.