Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Battle of the Bulge

Discussion in 'Western Europe 1943 - 1945' started by Kai-Petri, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,469
    Likes Received:
    2,208
    BATTLE of the BULGE

    December 16, 1944 to January 25, 1945

    BATTLE FACTS

    Over a million men, 500,000 Germans, 600,000 Americans (more than fought at Gettysburg) and 55,000 British.

    3 German armies, 10 corps, the equivalent of 29 divisions.

    3 American armies, 6 corps, the equivalent of 31 divisions.

    The equivalent of 3 British divisions as well as contingents of Belgian, Canadian and French troops.

    100,000 German casualties, killed, wounded or captured.

    81,000 American casualties, including 23,554 captured and 19,000 killed.

    1,400 British casualties 200 killed.

    800 tanks lost on each side, 1,000 German aircraft.

    The Malmedy Massacre, where 86 American soldiers were murdered, was the worst atrocity committed against American troops during the course of the war in Europe.

    -------------

    [​IMG]

    ---------

    The Sixth Panzer Army

    On the night of 15 December German company commanders gave their men the watchword which had come from the Fuehrer himself: "Forward to and over the Meuse!" The objective was Antwerp.

    The main effort would be made by Dietrich's Sixth Panzer Army on the north wing, with orders to cross the Meuse on both sides of Liege, wheel north, and strike for the Albert Canal, fanning out the while to form a front extending from Maastricht to Antwerp. Meanwhile the infantry divisions to the rear of the armored columns would form the north shoulder of the initial advance and a subsequent blocking position east of the Meuse along the Vesdre River. Eventually, or so Hitler intended, the Fifteenth Army would advance to take a station protecting the Sixth Panzer Army right and rear.

    The attack front assigned the Sixth Panzer Army, Monschau to Krewinkel, was narrower than that of its southern partner because terrain in this sector was poor at the breakthrough points and would not offer cross-country tank going until the Hohes Venn was passed. The initial assault wave consisted of one armored and one infantry corps.

    Dietrich's staff had selected five roads to carry the westward advance, the armor being assigned priority rights on the four southernmost

    the Sixth Panzer did have a timetable: one day for penetration and breakout, one day to get the armor over the Hohes Venn, the Meuse to be reached by the evening of the third day, and crossings to be secured by the fourth.

    This army was relatively well equipped and trained. Most of its armor had been out of combat for some time and the horde of replacements had some degree of training in night movement and fighting.

    The artillery complement of the Sixth Panzer Army was very heavy, albeit limited in mobility by the paucity of selfpropelled battalions. The four armored divisions had about 500 tanks and armored assault guns, including 90 Tigers (Mark VI). Lacking were two things which would markedly affect the operations of the Sixth Panzer Army once battle was joined. There were few trained engineer companies and these had little power equipment. The infantry lacked their full complement of assault guns, a weapon on which the German rifle platoon had learned to lean in the assault; only the 3d Parachute was fully armed with this critical infantry weapon.


    The Fifth Panzer Army

    The battle plans and tactics of the Fifth Panzer Army, more than those of any other German army that took part in the Ardennes counteroffensive, bore the very strong personal imprint of its commander, General Manteuffel. His staff, carefully selected and personally devoted to the little general, was probably the best German staff on the Western Front.

    In final form of plan, the LVIII Panzer Corps' mission was to cross the Our River on both sides of Ouren, drive west on the Houffalize axis, and create a bridgehead over the Meuse River in the neighborhood of Namur and Andenne. At the same time the XLVII Panzer Corps would cross the Our in the vicinity of Dasburg and Gemund, push west via Clerf, seize the vital road center at Bastogne, form in a deep column echeloned to the left and rear, then race for the Meuse River crossings south of Namur. Manteuffel had two armored formations in reserve, the Panzer Lehr Division and the Fuehrer Begleit Brigade. These he intended to throw in behind the armored corps which made the first bridgehead at the Our.

    The Fuehrer Begleit Brigade was expanded for commitment in the Ardennes to three panzer grenadier battalions, a panzer regiment, an artillery battalion, an antiaircraft battalion, and lesser units.

    the Fifth Panzer Army had been given a small infantry corps of two divisions to flesh out its right shoulder. This was General der Artillerie Walther Lucht's LXVI Corps. In early planning there had been some question as to whether the Americans in the Schnee Eifel should be left to the Fifth or the Sixth. Unhappy about this thorn in his side, Manteuffel won the assignment of the Schnee Eifel heights to his army and personally developed a scheme to mop up resistance in this sector at the earliest possible moment. Despite the general dictum that defended towns would be bypassed, Manteuffel wanted St. Vith as a blocking position and so ordered Lucht to capture it. Once through St. Vith the LXVI would follow Krueger to Andenne, but if things grew rough on the left wing Manteuffel intended to switch Lucht's corps to the south.

    With this team Manteuffel hoped to win a quick penetration and get rolling. His first concern would be to gain the ridge west of the Our and thus cover the armor crossings, for he recognized that it would be a difficult stream to bridge. He expected that the tactics of predawn infiltration would pay off and that his assault detachments would have reached the crest line, Lascheid-Heinerscheid-Roder-Hosingen, before noon on D-day.

    One thing clearly worried him: would the Seventh Army keep pace and cover his left flank to Bastogne? His appeal for a mechanized division to be given the neighboring Seventh the Fuehrer personally denied.

    http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_CONT.HTM


    http://members.aol.com/dadswar/bulge/
     
  2. Onthefield

    Onthefield Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2003
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    6
    Just to think of the mere size of a huge gamble is incredible. Hitler was done and he knew he was, I don't understand why he chose to continue his "revenge war" at that point? :confused: [​IMG]
     
  3. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    where do you get this 1000 German a/c lost Kai ?

    actually the battles was over 14 January 45
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,469
    Likes Received:
    2,208
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    ...and yet the US Official History cuts off more or less at the end of December, as the Germans moved to the lesser offensive in Alsace.

    'This new battle, however, would have little effect on the German forces which, on 3 January, faced the great Allied counteroffensive as it moved into high gear to flatten the Bulge and steamroller a path to and over the Rhine'. ( p.648 ).

    This is one of those arguments where everyone is right...it's a little like the the argument of 'when did the Battle of Britain end ?'. In that case, aerial fighting continued over Britain for many months and the RAF pilots claim that they had no idea that the battle had 'ended'.

    For the Official History ( and incidentally, in my own opinion ) the 'Battle of the Bulge' ended when the German offensive actually stopped, its' objective realised as a failure ( ie at Celles - the furthest point west ).

    But I would fully expect any veteran of the January fighting to violently disagree with this !
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,469
    Likes Received:
    2,208
    Was there a moment when Hitler himself thought the attack was over and done with? Any info on this?
     
  7. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    Yes, there is !

    In the excellent book, ' Hitler And His Generals - Military Conferences 1942-1945 ' edited by Helmut Heiber ( Greenhill Books, 2002 ) the full transcript of Hitler's Speech to Divisional Commanders dated 28th December, 1944 from FHQ Adlerhorst is given.

    As one would expect, Hitler rambles at considerable length but in the middle of the speech we read the following : -

    '...An advance against Antwerp would be catastrophic ( for the Allies ). The advance didn't succeed. But one thing did succeed : now all the essential available forces have been brought together to block off the danger. This is the first positive achievement, now it's about using lots of individual strikes to first destroy the forces lying south of the penetration line'. (p.558 ).

    Here Hitler has given up all intention of striking further west : he is introducing the idea of the further attack in Alsace to be followed by others to destroy the Allied forces piecemeal.

    To me, it's rather like Monty later claiming Market-Garden to have been '95% successful'.
     
  8. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    6,548
    Likes Received:
    52
    Thanks for all those facts, Kai! ;)

    I'd say that the battle was over when the Germans pulled back to their initial positions of December 16th by late January, leaving behind 100.000 men... :rolleyes:
     
  9. Onthefield

    Onthefield Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2003
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    6
    There's so many question I have and so many things that just seem so...so...so stupid on Hitler's part and the generals. The next book on the list though is Sounding of the Trumpets which I'm excited to read. ;)
     
  10. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm about 1/4 way though my research into the places I'll visit this weekend in the Ardenne and the more I read about what happened in every else OTHER than bloody BASTOGNE, the more I think even though the 101st were surrounded and bombed silly, they didn't do any more (probably even less) than other units say around St Vith, Rochefort, Malmedy or La Roche. Ok a lot of these actions were lost but they were brave actions and deserve to be reported on.

    Heres something that I read in Martin's Excellent recommendation "Tour of the Bulge Battlefield" (I have paraphrased some sections for expediency)

    All of the following happened just in Verdenne:

    [​IMG]

    (follow the center arrow that is labelled LVIII panzer corps) and you will see Verdunne.

     
  11. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    1
    Guys,

    I'm back from my trip to Bastogne, it was bloody cold and sleeping in a tent at -4*c was quite rewarding in its own way... at least I can say:

    "Sometimes at night when its real cold I tell my wife: "Gee...I'm glad I'm not in Bastogne"

    I want to share some of my pics with you all.

    I'm going to assume most of you have seen Band of Brothers:

    506PIR 101st Airborne Foxholes at FOY: (YES they are still there)

    The whole forest had a thick covering of pine "leaves" you now the thin fern-like stuff so all the foxholes were about half filled in when we were there, but it was obvious that they went down at least another foot or 2.

    [​IMG]
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Locations/foxes.JPG
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Locations/largefox.JPG

    Foy Field, the attack...
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Locations/foyapproach.JPG
    Compare this to where Wild Bill and Babe Heffron went to relive some memories:
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Locations/BOBfoyfront.jpg

    My friend and I walked half the distance to the Farms at Foy (couldn't go all the way 'cause it was private property) but it was at least 750m!!! What a run!

    and now compare both the above to the distance actually dipicted in the series:

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Locations/movierange.jpg


    If you didn't buy the book I had, or similar, you would've just driven up the road and totally missed it. It just looks like tilled farmland.

    I liked the modesty and reverence of the place, I could have lived there in fact. They (the belgians) hold Americans / British in very high esteem, but are not trying to make loads of money out of it. There aint no Foy 101st B&B for instance or tours. Even the plaque marking the site of the British involvement, (did you know for instance that the Brits stopped the last advance into Belgium?)
    this plaque was only about a foot high and we drove past it 3 times looking for it, because it was in the book, you would have totally missed it otherwise.

    Other places it is more obvious, a Panther perhaps in the town center or a plaque with 4 flags (including Germany!). In the whole of the Ardenne there are 11 museums, tucked away in sleepy villages with only 2 of them in Bastogne.

    Panzers

    These pics were taken at La Gleize and is the only PzkfwVI in the Ardenne.

    (WARNING pictures are HUGE)
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Me/pzkfwVI-climbup.JPG
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Me/pzkfwVI-sit.JPG

    The real run down Panther at Celles
    http://members.tripod.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Armour/pzCelles4.jpg

    2 of the Houffalaise Panther
    http://members.tripod.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Armour/pz401c.jpg
    http://members.tripod.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Armour/8x6PANZER401.jpg

    A pic of the Das Reich Panther at Grandmenil, the best tank of the whole trip in my opinion, perhaps it was the snow setting...
    [​IMG]

    This Sherman is located in Bastogne main town square. That hole in the left side I could fit my fist clean through it
    http://members.tripod.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Armour/sherman_fnt.jpg
    http://members.tripod.co.uk/ardennebattlefields/Armour/BASSHERMAN.jpg
     
  12. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    890
    Location:
    Jefferson, OH
    Pretty awesome pics. Thanks for sharing.
     
  13. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    26
    Great pics, Bratwurst! You really got into character, didn't you!!! ;)

    PS: to you and Mahross; the "stuff" is coming. I needed some time to get things squared away, but I am on a roll now! :D
     
  14. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    GREAT stuff, Jeff - really good ! Can't wait 'til May when I'll be back there....

    Glad you found the foxholes OK - they are really atmospheric and you could easily miss them.

    ( PS : The Grandmenil Panther gets my vote, too ! The Bastogne Sherman is a genuine battle relic & a book telling its' story can be had from the Museum ).
     
  15. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    1
    No thank YOU Martin, you, as usual put up the source (ie. the "Tour of the Battle of the bulge battlefields" book) and boy did it deliver. :D

    I planned out the whole route from Dinant to La the Crossroads and the Bastogne tour soley on your book (Kurt my mate had some info on Foy but didn't know how to get there!), so without your book I would have seen bastogne town centre and possibly the church, that's all.

    Stevin, I didn't get into character as much as I wanted to, I had an Italian Zeltbahn for when it rained and wore it near the Tiger II but really wanted an m43 or schurmuntz to wear on top of that panther! [​IMG] :eek: :( :D
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    great pics Brat ! so when are the locals going to paint the German heavies back in their original colours ?.........the never ending question
     
  17. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    They're slowly getting there, Erich. When I first saw the Grandmenil Panther in 1987 it was painted all-over red oxide, and the wreck at Celles was just plain rust.

    Sometimes I think it's a case of which tin of paint happens to be lying at the back of the barn.... :rolleyes:
     
  18. Fredd

    Fredd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    I cannot say for sure what were Hitler and his generals planning to achieve. I know sizing Antwerp, but then what? For me much more interesting is to look at the outcome of operation in the East.
    Yes, in the East. I am sure the Battle of Bulge allow Russian to conquer Eastern Germany and storm Berlin much easier.
    As you pointed out Germans loose over 100.000 people and large amount of equipment. Including so needed Pantzer V i VI tanks. I just cannot understand how (in such condition) the generals allow and participate in preparing and conducting operation on that scale. For all reasonable men, after landing in Normandy AND Operation Bagration the Third Reich was doomed. The only question was that who will be the first to win, Western Allies or Bolsheviks. I heard many times about soldiers oath, which Germans officers were faithful. How about being faithful to our own society.
    Let's take for instance Jodl (because Keitel was an ordinary example of a weakling and yes-man) I perceive him as a excellent officer. Didn't he realize what were they doing to German civilian?
    Or they still believed in the Wunderwaffe and the Alp Fortress. But how - they had exact data about the condition of German industry, at the time. Hitler could have be insane at the last stage of war but the rest? Or Speer, who was better aware of the situation than him. He wrote in his memory, I know everything is lost but was afraid of Kaltenbruner.

    [ 10. February 2004, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Fredd ]
     
  19. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    1
    From my (still abysmal) knowledge of the subject I heard Hitler wanted a quick victory for his people to boost morale as his "quick campaign" :D in Mid 1941 was still not getting him results 3 years after it started!
     
  20. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    1
    I know its not perfect but according to Achtungpanzer.com :

    I personally thought the Grandmenil Panther looked very well done up (not having a clue though whether the colours were accurate or not)

    Just a thought, would they not have whitewashed them for the winter battle? :confused:
     

Share This Page