Lancaster Bomber 514 Squadron

Erich,

The time and location of the two "Halifax" attacks certainly are in the right area at the right time. The radial engines on the Lancaster Mark 2 could be the reason for the wrong identification.

Talking to Dad last night before he posted and apparently the time convention in use at the time needs to be considered. He believes the RAF flying from England was using a time offset for summer called "British Double Summer Time." What time offset was the Luftwaffe using?

Regards, E.W. Campbell

 

Martin your profile is actually a Ju 88G-6 .......ooops !

E.W. and Alex yes identification was very tough for both sides even RAF bomber crews id'ing a Ju 88 or a Bf 110G-4 when it was total choas being under attack from the night fighters. As German crews usually attacked from the rear or from underneath with their twin Schrägwaffen (two upward firing 20mm cannon)and even with an extra pair of eyes it was difficult.
Case in point are the victories in another thread from W.R. Chorleys work for 1945 RAF bomber losses. SChröder on one night thought he had shot down Lancasters but in reality they were Halifax's. Counting himself with his crew of three there were 8 eyes that could not tell the difference and that was low down over the Danish strait over water with good visibility and good light.

we have covered this elsewhere and I beleive some years ago about English versus German times but would assume they were clsoe. Anyone else add to this section ?

Erich ~

 

( - you're never too old to learn ! )

 

Erich,

The Leutnant Straßner attack seems to be the best fit for time and place. Searching Leutnant "Straßner" in English, brings up "Strassner" possibly the same person. I came across this site featuring a model of Strassner's JU88 as configured in summer of 1944 and stationed at Chateaudun.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal3/2801-2900/Gal2816_Ju-88_Vilingr/gal2816.htm

This site, also model oriented:
http://www.internetmodeler.com/2003/february/new-releases/decal_owl-nf.htm
made this comment: "the Junkers Ju 88G-1 was from 2./NJG 2 in August of 1944. Flown by Leutnant Johannes Strassner and coded 4R+AK, this plane had an experimental mounting of a MG151/20 in front of the cabin at an oblique angle."

Wonder if Leutnant Straßner is still around?

E.W. Campbell

 

crazy day today. yes Straßner flew the strangely armed Junkers with the single 20mm through the cabin, now the question although photo evidence exists of this bird, did he fly it on the July and August 44 missions so armed ? he also claimed a Lancaster on the 4th of August 44 in the same Ju 88G-1. From what I last heard he was still alive a retired police offizier. guess I need to send off a note if I can find his addy .....

as the video is still not working for me how was the Lancaster on the 28 July 44 shot down, from underneath or ?, into the engines, etc.

Erich

 

Here's more Erich. Some shells I'm sure came from behind and slightly below. However from the torn metal over the fuel tanks it could have been caused by firing from below. The first attack took out the windscreen along with my DR compass. Both port engines ablaze, a heavy stream of flaming gasoline from the tanks.
The moon was 1/2 to 3/4 full. I caught a fleeting glimpse of the fighter off to starboard as he banked around for another attack which succeeded in disabling the starboard inner engine. We spent the first few days in a safe house near an airdrome. Every day radar equipped Ju88's took off right over our heads as the U/C was retracting. We were not far from Chateaudun at that time. Enough for now. Skipper, E.A Campbell

 

I've been doing a little more digging ( sorry, it's a hobby and I can't help it ! ) and the Lancaster was LL692, one of a batch of 100 Hercules-powered Mk II's built by Armstrong Whitworth at Coventry. Originally with 115 Squadron, it was a survivor of the early-1944 Berlin raids ( as from 2nd January ) and also the notorious Nuremburg Raid of 30/31 March.

The aircraft crashed near the village of St. Cloud-en-Dunois, 8km SSE of Chateaudun.

Above info culled from Chorley, Francis K Mason's 'Avro Lancaster' and an anonymous website which I Googled into....

 

Martin,
I am impressed with what you have been able to discover and share with us about the Lanc that Dad was flying - very interesting. I believe that Dad's friend, Bob Giffin, is buried at St. Cloud-en-Dunois. Bob was seriously injured during the attack of July 28, 1944.
Talking to Dad last night he mentioned that the Halifax and Lancaster Mk 2 looked very similar from behind, at night it would be easy to make a mistake.

Regards, E.W. Campbell

 

did your dads Lanc have a name - nose art ?

friends Peter Spoden as well as Heinz Rökker for just two German NF aces both have said on numerous occassions they did not know 100 % what they were attacking and the proof is clarified in the Abschuße listings of 1 4-motor in their log books

 

Erich,

I believe this image shows the nose art on A2-C.
http://www.hilaroad.com/RCAF/514%20Squadron/target8.html

Dad will probably verify this later.
E.W. Campbell

 

E.W. A fine looking crew and super photos. Your father is a handsome man then and now. the lovely lady any relation ?

senidng you a private in a few moments

Erich

 

Alex I have sent your son a private message this morn with one of the German pilots address's so that you may contact him personally and hopeful someone on hand can translate a letter into German for you as this will make it much easier for the communique'

you should get a very favourable response from him

Erich

 

Martin- Don't apologize for your hobby, I respect it and enjoy your input. Please keep it up.
Erich- The nose art pictured is on the replacement A2 C. We were going to label our C Charlie as the Adelphi Queen after Miller Gordon's Adelphi Hotel in Glasgow Scotland. Would you give me a translation to the slogan beside the coat of arms? I didn't know Wayne had posted all those photos. The lovely lady is his mother and my wife. Bye for now and cheers EAC

 

Alex my signature is thus :

Grüneburg in Germany where several of my familie still reside.

the phrase in the literal was laid at my cousins gravesite in Holtensen, Germany back in 1999. My cousin Siegfried Baer was shot down in action while chasing US B-24's on November 26, 1944. He was flying a Fw 190A-9 fighter and downed most likely by Mustangs of the 2nd SF or 355th fighter group.

the phrase means : only those, which one forgets, are truly dead

pretty fitting I believe. and yes I thought that may well have been your wife in the photo, beautiful woman Alex.

Erich

 

Erich, wonderful epitaph for your cousin.

I have posted an image of an old map of the area around Chateaudun including Freteval Forest, the forest that was the refuge for 100's of allied troops, including crew members of A2-C, while they waited liberation.
http://www.hilaroad.com/RCAF/freteval/freteval_map.htm

E. W. Campbell

 

I have an original Luftwaffe map of Southern France. Incredible enought Chateaudun just fell off the map! Freteval Forest is on it!!! What a bummer! My map stops at Cloyes, a mere two miles south of Chateaudun.....

 

I forget which famous General lamented that great battles are always fought where two maps join....

 

Hehehehehehehe.....I know...I shouldn't have been surprised...

I can't get a sharp image. I'll try again later tonight. In the top middle you see Ft de Freteval. Just above that CLOYES...If you can read it...

 

Alex, this video has stirred up a whole new avenue for all of us! Great to see so much info flowing through the computers.
I have sent it off to all of my 514 SQUADRON contacts and have had a great response from all of them.
I will watch with great interest!

Wendy

 

Wendy:

welcome to the board, would like to see you personally add where needed or have the gents come on over for tea and pass along some memories. I think truly several of us "old" time members here really enjoy being able to help those out with data collected over the years. Safe to say if we are able we will help.

"Du bist nicht am Ende wenn du verlierst, du bist am Ende wenn du aufgibst !"

Erich