Bush

Yes, the plane did little damage to the Pentagon because it is, I believe, one of the largest office buildings (square foot wise) in the world. One plane would not be able to level that much of the building.

 

It's also fairly level, having been built horizontally rather than vertically because it's a military building of course. The five layers would take any kind of shock from the outside and just absorb it.

 

There is definently something wrong about the video of Nick Berg's beheading. If you watch the video, you'll notice the large gold ring that "Zarqawi" is wearing. In the Muslem religion, it is forbidden to wear such things, and the video shows that these men, even if they are pretending, are very religious.

Also, Zarqawi was reported dead a while back ago, so if he is alive, why would he identify himself but still wear a mask?

 

I wonder. If all physical and visible things point at the conclusion that the murderer can't be Zarquawi, and the man is wearing a mask, then how did they ever conclude that he is Zarqawi? Gold rings, white hands and a healthy stride just doesn't sound like a fanatical Muslem with an artificial leg.

 

Actually, when a plane hits the ground, at high speed, there is a crater. Right, right.
THere was never a picture or post of any plane debris found at that site, the Pentagon site, nor do any of the witnesses bear as passible. Why, because the two witnesses that I watched being interviewed changed their story! Hello.

Ah, yes the I worked on these before and know scenario. Not to say you don't. But, since I try not to leave loose ends, I asked two people that I consider experts; one a retired RCAF Brig. General and the other a man who investigated air accidents and was involved in managing the reconstruction of destroyed aircraft. With my expertise in explosives and demolitions I can say this; "NO AIRCRAFT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGE AT THE PENTAGON. Not in this world and not in the next!

I request the same of anyone, as they seem to demand of me, proof of the official responses to the attacks; Cause, effect and the truth to each sentence.

I also find it very interesting how there was also a fire at the White House the day of the attacks.

It is of public record that the Saudis' Royal family memebers left the continental USA, in two aircraft. When all civilian aircraft were grounded. This is comon knowledge, yet you ask me for proof. I will not do your work for you, that's up to you. I present each point I make through my research and post it. I suggest you do the same.
:angry: :roll:

And, correct me if I am wrong, I am still waiting for the promised proof for the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. If I wait any longer I will run out of time on this world. Why, because they were not there.

 

We've already been over this. Saddam had all the time after the 1st Gulf War to dispose of them. the UN inspections were a joke.

 

Mutant Poodle,
:angry:
I guess our "experts" will have to disagree. The people I work with who investigate aircraft accidents found the damage consistent with an aircraft crash. There were pictures of the plane debris at the Pentagon, I wish I had saved them. You can make out some of the tail structure of a 757.

The two sites listed below support the damge by plane theory, although that was not their primary purpose. The reading is a little dry. http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4eve ... tagon.html
http://sections.asce.org/mexico/noticia ... 242003.htm

As far as WMD go, I've always thought that was a wild goose chase. the diffiulct part of WMD is the delivery, not the produciton. If you're a believer in Iraqi WMD then either they were 1) destroyed before the war; or 2) shipped to Syria. Personnally, I don't believe either one.

But what has this or the Saudi Royal Families flight plans got to do with a Right Wing Zionist plot to destroy the World Trade Towers?

 

I am still waiting. Here is the bottom line; If they knew the Iraqi's had such weapons then logic dictates those making the statement know where they are. One cannot know if someone has such weapons unless they have seen them! Hello!
:angry: :bang:

 

mp

Mutant Poodle would you please tell us what really happened on Sept 11

 

Re: mp

My Reference List For This List

CNN, CBC, CBS, TNN, BBC World News, NY Times, Vancouver Sun, Globe and Mail, L.A. Times, USA Library of Congress, Fortunate Son, the Making of an American President, 9-11 The Big Lie, McCleans Magazine, Time Magazine, NYSE, TSE, TSEV, NASDAQ, LSE.
Federal government news releases: USA, Canada, Germany, UK, France, Spain.

Most importantly people who read this list of known facts must realize this is not a conspiracy of hiding the truth. This is a conspiracy of silence, this is the summation of the bare facts. If you can get past that thought then read this you will see a glimmer of understanding.

Sept 11, a day of murder in the grossest of terms. Look at the aircraft damage in the side of the World Trade Centres; look at the wing imprints, that is a textbook example of what the damage to the pentagon should look like. The size of the aircraft is vastly bigger than the gross area affected by the impact.

I must retract an earlier statement, it could have been a much smaller aircraft that impacted in a storage area for volatile fluids at the construction site, but that seems doubtful.

There has been discussion by experts that the plane impacted the ground, ripping off both wings, with the two engines, and the only part that hit the Pentagon was the fuselage. Ok so where are the wings?

Look at the marks on the grass field, no grassy knoll here, I have seen marks like those burnt into the ground by a very low flying missile’s exhaust vents. I don't believe it was a missile, however even Mr. Rumsfield (spelling), in an earlier statement, said a missile had hit the Pentagon; he then changed his statement. He was there, he ran over to help out like any good human being would.

I have tracked down some security camera footage, from that day at the Pentagon, showing something at high speed, not the type of jet stated, impact the outside surface.
I have also seen a "Blow-out Hole" where someone from the military also identified a hole on the outside brick wall, of the inner sanctum, for what it was. A "Blowout Hole".
The service person that did spray paint this on the brick got into a lot of trouble for doing so. Hmm sounds like repression of expertise for keeping a story straight. Anyone remember the single bullet theory that killed a president of the USA; if people still believe that one I have a bridge for sale, in Brooklyn.

Lets look at this, with what we do know.

1. Two planes were intentionally flown into the two Trade Centres.
2. There was a fire in the White House at the same time as the attack on the Pentagon.
3. The Pentagon was attacked.
4. An aircraft was flown into the ground, killing only it's occupants on board.
5. There was prior warnings of an attack, with aircraft by several field agents, that for some reason was ignored.
6. One week prior to the attacks the profit taking with the two airline's stocks increased 6,000 % .
7. Aircraft all over the Americas were grounded for a number of days, for good reason.
8. The New York emergency radio frequencies were reportedly squibbed due to yet unknown reasons.
9. President Bush claims to have witnessed the very first aircraft impact the World Trade Centre, his reaction to an aid was, and I quote, " what a lousy pilot." Well that was impossible due to the fact that that footage was not released until after the second aircraft hit.
10. Two jet fighters were dispatched to intercept the mystery jet that attacked the Pentagon, flying below the radar of the most heavily defended airspace via radar and missile defence batteries installed to stop this very type of attack.
11. Several witnesses, the credible ones due to profession or position have changed their stories over the time of the investigations.
12. The USA initiated invasion plans for Iraq just after the attacks without making available the proof of who and what exactly happened. Does anyone remember the argument between Rumsfield and Senator (?) in the White House Press room? I do.
13. The secrete service evacuated the President to one of the vast underground facilities that can house thousands of people.
14. The vice president and others of the presidential staff were evacuated to the basement emergency facility, under a wing of the White House.
15. A list of the supposed terrorist hijackers was released, yet six of the supposed dead were alive and well; five in the USA, one in Morocco.
16. The Can / USA / Mexico borders were closed, for good reason.
17. Several who spoke out, free speech, about the ill-fitting pieces or in regards to government foreign policy were branded as traitors or committing "un American" acts.
18. A new political office, "Home Land Security" was created.
19. There are now armed personnel at all the major airports, or there are supposed to be anyways.
20. The Iraqi leader, Hussein, was removed from power.
21. Only those people who are personal friends of the president Bush can control any reconstruction of Iraq.
22. Iraq was never exposed, by hard evidence, or even identified as the executor of the 9-11 attacks.
22.1. Afganistan, those terrorist leaders in that country, were identified to be involved. This is why Canadian troops and other mechanisms of the Canadian Secret Service were placed at the right hand of the United States of America. As per the NATO Alliance dictates. This was done the moment Canadian ledership was informed of what had happened.
23. Canada and the other NATO alliance, Atlantic alliance members are bound by these treaties.
24. Now if Iraq was fingered and shown to have played any significant part in the 9-11 attacks every member would have been there at the beginning and the end of the invasion of Iraq.
25. Hussein gassed 50, 000 Kurdish men, women and children in Iraq and the USA, as well as Canada and others did absolutely nothing, in fact Hussein was seen by the White House as being a moderate and a misunderstood leader; trade between the USA and Iraq increased by over 400 %.
25.1 During the last two decades in Iraq, between 5 and 7 million Muslims, natives of Iraq, the Shiites, ended up in mass graves. Think about that for just one minute, how many murdered people does it take to use the word Holocast? How many? I am a Christian and I find this evidence abhorrid to my sense of humanity. Did these people need to have the Star of David sewen to their shirts before the "Great Powers, the Defenders of Righteousness" step in the ring and say stop, stop it now?!!
Nope it took the threat to oil destined to the United States to get a reaction. The Ghosts of Vimy, Utah and The Somme are marching again.
26. Ben laden has been, in the past; especially when fighting the Russians in Afghanistan, on the CIA payroll.
27. Ben laden is a Saudi Prince, even though the Saudis claim otherwise. Yet event the vast information capabilities of the NSA, CIA have shown hard evidence to the contrary.
28. There is an underground civil war going on in Saudi Arabia, there is absolutely no freedom of speech there. At all!
29. Under the Patriot Act the secret service agencies of the USA have finally caught up to the same emergency laws here in Canada.
30. Canada has been fingered as a major threat to American security, yet some of the supposed terrorists were given access to the USA through their border guards. I have yet to here of or see a Canadian border guard allow someone into the USA. Or vice versa!
31 Several of the inner circle, at the White House, are from the top levels of the American oil corporations.
32. In Africa, and South America several government leaders or person of great political influence spoke out against major oil corporations exploitation they ended up dead or missing.
33. The USA and the UK are now in control of Iraqi oil.
34. Irag had very important oil treaties with other major powers in Europe; Germany, France to name two.
35. Several of the poorest Eastern European nations; Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria to name three, sent troops to the second Gulf War, the I invasion of Iraq.
36. Now that the guerilla warfare has gotten to new hieghts the UN is being courted by the USA and the UK to intervene and work to bring peace, but with American conditions on who is in charge of the oil and rebuilding contracts.

Remember, this is just a list of what we know, due to published evidence; from around the world. This is not opinion.
Read each point for: Cause, Effect and what is the raw Truth of each point.

When investigating a crime, when eliminating the possibilites what we are left with, however improbable, must be.

There have been times when I investigated an industrial accident, wanting to believe in the inherited goodness of the human condition; however, using my skills in observation and critical thinking I have been dissapointed in the sums of the evident actions or crimes.


I will no longer be in this form, this was to be about history and or weapons of warfare, not bloody politics. I have done my best to open your eyes, ot to what is being said but to see and listen for what is not being said or shown as evidence to the 9-11 attacks and the out right, transparent theft of American demoracy.
One can guide a horse to the water but one cannot make the horse drink the water. I could hold a bomb, it would appear, in some of this forum's members face and still be asked to proove it was armed. Not!

By the way if you take any objection to these facts then proove it, proove your points with your "credible" sources. Debunk my facts, I know you can't but you are welcome to try, you do the work. Simply stating something like 'I challange you, or that's simpl not true' isn't satisfactory, it is not an acceptable form of argument!!!


Good luck to you all, may fortune smile upon every edevour you partake.
:angry:

 

People, people! This topic used to be about the wrongs and rights of Bush's reign and was never supposed to be 'another topic for bashing the USA'; it certainly wasn't meant to digress in endless discussion over conspiracies and setups that may or may not have determined the events of Sept.11th or anything else. Why not? Because it gets people all heated up.

Because of the nature of such conspiracy theories it doesn't matter if they're true or not, and I'm not saying they're not; they just won't ever be agreed upon. Why? Because people don't want to believe these theories, regardless of the truth or lies in them. It's much easier to believe the official idea of what happened, because the results of these events can't be changed anymore. Usually the official declaration of facts true or not is much more credible because of the source, and other theories are less credible because they criticize just that source that people think they can always rely on.

Therefore, Mutant Poodle, your views however right will never be believed, and you might as well stop trying to break the peace with them. Continuous proving your theories isn't going to make them easier to swallow. To all members, I would appreciate it if there are no more conspiracy theories about recent events. Thank you.

 

Most of the last two pages read like my grandfather's (and many others) crazy theories that FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack and purposely withheld the info to help inflame American public opinion for WW II involvement.

The Pentagon is a huge building built like a huge fort/bunker. Didn't anyone on the forum see the one (and only) security video, from a side view, of the jet plowing into the building? It was released about a year ago. I guess it could be faked too, like the moon landing...... .

It appeared to me that Berg was very possibly drugged, not for "humanitarian" purposes but to minimize his struggling and his ability to "mess up" the production. The lack of blood indicates to me that they still managed to mess up somewhere and had to redo it.

OK, I'm going back to work covering up U.S. involvement in the Spanish train explosions now...... .

 

good luck

 

Back to Bush, I would like to hear other's opnions on an "October Suprise," where WMDs are found weeks before the elections.

Chances? Opnions?

 

It is my opinion based on logical 'defeated nation psychology' that had the Iraqis possessed WMDs they would have used them by now. Or the day the US invaded, or the day the US invaded fourteen years ago. In none of these events they did so. Therefore I don't believe they ever had these weapons and that they certainly won't turn up anymore if they had them.

 

The October surprise will have two elements: WMD's and Osama Bin Laden.

The WMD's are no problem because basic ingredients of iraqi wmd's were supplied by the us so it will be fixed.

Osama isn't a problem either, he has been captured in las februar by Iranian border military and handed over to the us. This was stated by the official iranian press agency.

There is a internet lotto about this: The Osama and WMD lotto.

I've bet it will be ''discovered'' just before election day.

 

Saddam actually had WMD in 1991.
After the first Gulf war, he was not allowed to posess them anymore, they had to be destroyed.UN inspectors were responsible for this.
It is often said these inspections were not successfull, but apparently they were, since there are no WMD anymore.
If he still had them, Saddam would have used them(he did not have anything to loose), or they would have been found by now.

Talking about WMD, these are not weapons you easily hide in the desert(Satellites would see that).You also need factories to build them, scientists(hundreds) to develpo them, workers that work in these factories, money funds to finance them....
Neither of this had yet been found, so apparently the inspectors were quite sucessfull.

Some say the WMD were taken to Iran, or Syria, this is highly improbable, why would Iran(Saddams worst ennemy!), or a weak country like Syria go such a risk.BTW they have WMD themselves.

 

Back to Bush...

Anyone who makes a big speech which referes to the War on Terror' as a "Crusade" simply commands our disrespect.

With such a 'war', the one thing you need to do is isolate the 'enemy' from their potential 'friends' - in this case Muslims. What one word is bound to put any Muslim firmly on the opposing side?

Crusade.

Yes, Bush has speechwriters who craft these things for him, but to have writers who are so politically and historically unaware is just criminal.

Yes, I am damning the man because of one speech here, but it does sum up his apparent approach...

 

The only "October Surprise" will be an amazingly embarassing item concerning Kerry that will effective finish his chances of being elected. This will be orchestrated not by Bush or the Republicans, but by the Clintons. Utilizing their mass of embarassing material gleaned from the FBI files they illegally accessed (what he actually should have been impeached for), they will sabotage Kerry to set up Hillary Clinton for a 2008 run for the White House.

There, how's that for conspiracy theory.

 

I agree with the theory that Saddam never had WMD and if he did, he used em up along time ago. The Iraqis did not even use WMD in the first Gulf War, but the US did by expending thousands of tons of depleted uranium in shells and bombs.