Anti Shipping Aircraft

see Operation Cerberus, A.K.A. the Chanell dash by the Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and the Prinz Eugen, all of them were shot out of the sky

 

Operation Cerberus/Fuller

This give a lot of major battles but click on the Cerberus link

http://www.warships1.com/index_oob/OOB_ ... 01/09/2003

 

:lol:
Thanks me262 and PMN1. I didn't think the Stringbags would actually do too well with other aircraft shooting at them.

 

you are correct,still the stringbags keep trying to hit the ships , knowing the could be kill any moment

 

still the Fw had a difficult time to hit the stringbags, they have to reduce speed even to drop theirs flaps to slow down and catch the swordfish

 

Without wishing to split hairs unduly, the SBD Dauntless is more correctly creditted with sinking more tonnes of axis shipping than any other source. This does not necessarily equate to a greater number of ships.

As for the Stringbag, I'm sure I can remember reading that the Bismark's AAA was calibrated against "modern" torpedo bombers, against the slow speed of the Stringbags the shot's were consequently aimed harmlessly infront of them. Rare indeed that being slow saved an aircraft!

 

You´re right. Sorry about my inaccuracy.

I could have been most ships as well though. Who knows ?

It´s an impressive tally in any case.

 

The 'Scourge of the Atlantic' was also a good plane against shipping, its not only the small ones that should always take the credit. (not implying anything here ).

 

AHHHH, the FW 200 condor, one of my favorites, is there any remote posibility that there is a surviving example of the condor?

 

Too big - ground attack aircraft were vulnerable to ground fire and the bigger they were the easier they were to hit.

As far as recoil is concerned, this is a quote from 'Flying Guns – World War 2: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations 1933-45' by Emmanuel Gustin and myself:

"This might be an appropriate moment to dispel one of the favoured myths of big-gun aircraft; that the recoil had a drastic effect on their speed. To take the example of the USAAF's B-25 fitted with a 75 mm M4 gun; the aircraft weighed around 12,000 kg and attacked at perhaps 400 km/h, the gun fired a 6.8 kg projectile at around 2,200 km/h. A simple rule of thumb is to multiply the weight by the speed to achieve a rough "momentum index" (it is actually a bit more complicated than this, as the expanding propellant gasses contribute to the recoil). It will be apparent that the aircraft has at least 200 times the momentum of the projectile, and a single shot will therefore not greatly slow it. In fact, at the end of an attack run in which several shots were fired, the plane would typically be slowed by 10-15 mph."

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

 

"AHHHH, the FW 200 condor, one of my favorites, is there any remote posibility that there is a surviving example of the condor?"

Apparently not at the moment , but this from http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/ the only references on their site to the Fw200...

"F8+CL 7./KG40 Wreck raised in Norway in the Trondheimsfjord. Restoration for the Technical Museum of Berlin. Recovery failed and the a/c broke into several pieces. . 100% lost on the 22.02.42."

In addition there are apparently a few bits and pieces, some of them will eventually contribute to F8+CL's final restoration, but it wont be for some time yet...

 

How do you guys think the condor compares to, lets say the sunderland?

 

Compared to the Sunderland or Emily, poorly but only because they were so sturdy (and the latter based on the former), compared to the He177 Greif probably about equal, since although the He177 had reliability problems (that were solved with the He277) the Fw200 had structural issues from the fact it was basically a converted airliner and was not structurally upgraded throughout its career, so were never solved.

If the war had dragged on another year the Heinkel Greif may have been remembered as a success, I think the Fw200 would have always had problems though...

 

True, but the condor operated well when there were no fighters in the vicinity.

Dont u think it should get some points for that?

 

The Condor suffered severe structural weaknesses, failures of the fuselage or wings were common unfortunately even on the ground (or hopefully? I'd rather the plane I was supposed to be flying fell apart on the runway rather than over the middle of the Atlantic! :lol: ).

Overall any points it gains for usefulness in the absence of enemy fighters must be weighed against an apparent ability to fall apart without outside intervention!

 

Although it is true that the Condor suffered structural weaknesess, you must note that it had a surprising record of ship busting. Is that supposed to credit the crews or the airplane?

The record of the Condor speaks for itself, no need to add any more comments:


In the months of August and September of 1940, the Condor sank 90,000tons of allied shipping.

And between August 1, 1940, and February 9, 1941, a total of 363,000tons of shipping was sunk.

Please note that the above is CONFIRMED by allies and axis alike. I usually write CLAIMED if the info given is not confirmed, thank you!

 

"Please note that the above is CONFIRMED by allies and axis alike. I usually write CLAIMED if the info given is not confirmed, thank you!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Is that supposed to credit the crews or the airplane?"

That, and the equipment used, and the lack of available air cover during that time to the Allies!

 

The Italian battleships hit at Taranto were state of the art-the "Litorio" class, launched in the late 1930s, armed with 9 x 15inch guns ..while on the subject of the Italians, the torpedo armed SM 79 "Pipistrello" was considered one of the best anti-shipping aircraft of the war in the Mediterranean

 

Anybody mentioned the airships used by the US Navy in convoy escorts and sub-hunting? Did any of those carried complements of aircrafts?

 

True, the lack of aircover played a critical part in the sucess of the condor. Their drawbacks became more apparent when the hurricanes made their mark over the Atlantic.