Democracy - a good system?

Split from the Bush thread

If you could change it, what would you do?

Which way could a democracy run better in today's society?

Maybe Marx was right, all governments will become Marxist eventually.

 

I may have my source wrong but wasn't it Churchill who said: "One party is not enough, and three is too many"? Also: "Democracy is the worse form of goverment ever invented, except for all the others".
A multitude of minor parties can lead to non-consensus and paralyze a government.

 

I though Churchill's quote about democracy was: "Democracy is the worst form of government, but the best one I have seen so far."

But whatever, the idea is the same.

Canambridge wrote-A multitude of minor parties can lead to non-consensus and paralyze a government.

Well isn't that one of the funfamental problems and tenets of democracy? Non-consensus? In a real democracy, everybody can say whatever they want. Inevitably, this will lead to non-consensus.

 

Real democracy doesn't exist.

In its pure form democracy means the peoples voices, in other words: every citizen may speak out his thoughts in the centre of power.
In Greek times Athens was the power centre and every citizen had the right to go to the councel and represent himself or his village.

Today every democracy has parties who represent the society. As citizen you cannot walk into the senate, house of the lords, bundestag, tweede kamer or any other parlimentary representation. The parties decide who the candidate will be. The parties turn down who they want to turn down
So in fact our democracy does not differ from the communist dogma of the 'leading element of the society'(-the communist party)

Democracy is nothing more nor less then the ability of the state system to canalize the peoples wishes and thougts.

While we discuss the pro's and con's of possible new legislation or plans the state system puts these legislation or plans into working wether we like it or not. It is like playing a puppet-show, only in this puppet show 95% of the watchers sincerely believe the puppets are real.

Like the JSF for the netherlands, the people didn't want this plane, most of the representatives didn't want the plane and even the ruling parties were not sure. Only after promises of the american government that the costs would not rise they voted yes. (to understand my point the following explanation; in the netherlands the parties discuss internally about their view/line, if the party directory takes a decision, backed or not, the members of the party are obliged to follow this decision. So when a new law or plan comes into voting the members must vote according to their party line wether they support this line or not.)

Every specialist on airplane development interviewed told the parliament and the media that it was inevetable the costs would rise.

Jus short time ago it has become public the costs would rise and that the state ordered the jsf planes before it was approved by our parliament.

So while most people and representatives opposed this deal it was already made and it cannot be cancelled even though the majority doesn't want to go further with the JSF.

An excellent example of how democracy in the west works. There is essential no difference between such a voting and that of the sovjet doema.

 

Ironically, even though civilizations have tried to get rid of totalitarianism for ages, when it comes to making decisions this is the sbest form of government. however it does require a good divine ruler and not an arrogant divine ruler or a war-mongering divine ruler.

I agree with Anton that the ideal of Democracy doesn't exist; it cannot be carried out properly. Either it is complete, which leads two an institutional chaos because decisions can hardly be made upon anything, or it has some rules concerning consensus policies in which case it really isn't democratic. This was the case in Holland in the fifties, when no matter the outcome of the election, the government would always be the same...

 

In modern democracy there exists a mechanism that reduces indecisiveness. It is known as the will of the MAJORITY. This majority may be one man greater than the minority, but it still constitutes the majority. This was the case in Taiwan. The KMT lost by 0.2% of the total votes, and because of this small margin they lost the election.

Democracy appeals because it gives the people a voice. What people don't realize is that Democracy does not cater to the needs of all. It is simply the tyranny of the masses. The only system where everyone can have anything they want is a state of anarchy, and when this happens lawlessness will result. Governments were instituted to ensure law and order and to limit the power of the people for everyone's benefit.

Democracy may seem to be associated with prosperity and economic progress. This is not the case - Capitalism is responsible for such progress. And capitalism is designed in such a way that those who have the money get what they want. Singapore is relatively prosperous. Nonetheless, the political system is slightly totalitarian. The ruling party has always won landslide victories since 1959, the last truly democractic election we ever had. Strangely, it is this totalitarianism that actually pulled Singapore out of the third world.

 

This is very true. To me, communisum seems like the best form of government, but it only works on paper. Apply it to the real world, and you know what happens. So yes, democracy is not the best government by far, but it is the only one that works.

 

As Gatsby pointed out it is the best way to make people believe that they have power and influence when they really aren't very big in the complete picture. If a politician in a democracy can make people believe him then the election isn't much more than installing a self-proclaimed ruler.

 

I have a series of very interesting books by a man named Daniel Quinn. He believes that the only form of correct government is a tribal type, and that all current economic systems are what causes unhappiness in the world. A few of his books are: "The Story of B" and "My Ishmael(sp?)"

He says that the way the world runs is a cycle, for the governments: Make product, buy product.

For the tribes: Give support, Get support.

I encourage you to read these books, as they reveal some disturbing things about the way the world works.

 

Yep, I agree. Democracy is just a farce, the bread and circuses of today. What is so ironic is that Americans are so proud of the fact that they are a democracy and were one of the first nations to become one.

 

A country that can be seen as a model of democracy would be hard to find, because if you read the earlier posts, we have just been saying that democracy is flawed on many levels.

 

democracy was stupid thier are to many people now a days to withstand the weak power of democracy
athens had the right population for this fr\orm of goverment

 

Some insightful posts gentlemen!

Democracy does not exist as pointed out. Even in my own country, the U.S.A., we are a republic, not a democracy. What many do not realize is that their vote actually does not count in a presidential election.

We have the electoral college. While these representatives are supposed to vote in accordance with those they represent, there have been occasions when they actually voted the other way.

With the technology that exists in the USA today, there is no reason for an electoral college.

When one asks what is the most efficient form of government one must also ask the question, "for what?".

Over the milleniums, all republics/democracy's have fallen, and all have been replaced with a monarchy or dictatorship in one form or another.

It has been my experience here that many, many Americans are quite naive with respect to the future of their country. We have only a few hundred years under our belt and have not withstood any test of time.

Will the USA ultimately lose its dominant position in the world? Absolutely! The dollar has devaluated globally over 20% in the past few years. We are presently facing an economic crisis on the horizon never before parallelled in our short history.

As it is however, the USA is, in my opinion, the best place in the world to live for the common man at this time.

:smok:

 

i sorry but i did live in the US for up to a year ago and i have foung that the goverment is always in turmoil and has problems facing the problems that they create

i did like living there but i do not see thier goverment fit for such a big country.

 

I agree Airborne. Democracy was designed for a city-state that only had about 300,000 people, and probably fewer then 50,000 voters. Democracy stuggles in a society with 256mil people.

 

And what would you propose in its place?

 

Exactly. There is no need complaining about democracy because it is the best we have and most likely the best we will ever have.

 

I wonder why the US would be a bether place to live than for example Europe, Canada, or some other countries?

 

Off topic, but Canada is supposedly the place to live nowadays, much like Austrailia in the 80's.

 

Thanks Greg Pitts for the representation.
Yes, America is a Democratic Republic.

I don't think I'd want to live in a socialist country and pay the majority of my income into taxes. My uncle lives in Canada and he pays so many taxes!
I don't think I'd ever want to live in Canada. Sorry man, just not a place for me. I don't think I could live in a socialist place...maybe this is just my anti-communism streak in me. Socialism is a step to communism, so....
Oh, Airborne101, how much more problems and disagreement is there in american politics than any other country? I look around the world and see party strife everywhere. Just a thought.

Basically, I think that everyone is pretty nationalistic these days, so we won't argue about whose country is better.