Captured US planes

At a church function yesterday I was talking to a veteran of WWII. He was in a communications company in support of General Eisenhower's headquarters. He said one time he was forward working on a generator when the location came under air attack. He was suprised because he recognized the airplanes as P-40 Warhawks. He remarked to the other soldiers taking cover near him wondering why our own troops were straffing them. They told him it was a group of German pilots flying captured planes and that it had become a regular occurance for them to strafe them around lunch the last few days. The veteran asked them why no one was using the anti-aircraft weapons around the base to return fire, to which he got no answer. He said the following day the group of planes returned and this time they were ready and waiting, shooting all three planes down.

This was a great story and I was wondering if anyone could corroborate it? He didn't remember many specifics. It was still in France and within a couple months of the invasion.

 

Sounds more like friendly fire incidents to me rather than use of captured planes.

 

The allies stopped using P-40's in Europe after the battle for North Africa was finished. Not sure what to think of the story unless the person mis-identifed the aircraft. The Germans had better captured aircraft than P-40's to try a stunt like this.

Ask him about the shot down pilot's nationality the next time you see him.

 

This is another area where one has to be very careful with, and respectful of, veterans' memories. The 'captured aircraft' stories were very common during the war and veterans will still be absolutely certain of their use ( again, rather like the 'scarecrow shell' myth ). It's like 'strafing' of civilians in the Battle of Britain ; the Luftwaffe had no time to indulge in such stuff, what the civilians were experiencing was over-shoot ; but don't try arguing that one with a Blitz survivor....

 

Good point.

 

Years ago ice, i.e. more than 300 posts so I can’t retrieve it from the site archive, I asked members if they knew of the RAF using Stukas in North Italy in 1945. The reason was that two Veterans had assured me there were Stukas in a cab rank during at least one battle they were in.

Members had knowledge of Axis plans being captured, but not all precise usage thereafter. I made an enquiry with the Historical Section of RAF Hendon, and eventually got a defining reply that Stukas were not used as Dive Bombers by the RAF in this theatre – actually I think they probably said nowhere at all.

While the memory of the Veterans was very good and their personal accounts clear, logical and up to scrutiny, this issue of the RAF Stuka I left them with and could only note that the style and manor of the planes in the cab rank led some to think they closely resembled Stukas.

No.9

 

Thanks for the input. I had my own doubts about the identity of the planes. It is still an interesting story and could be friendly fire and return fire. I am still hoping that one of our Luftwaffe experts would weigh in and give some difinitive information.

 

Didn't the Fleet Air Arm use gull-winged dive bombers? The Consolidated-Vultee A31 Vengeance springs to mind.
Vengeance
I suppose the Douglas Dauntless might be confused for a Stuka, but only if you didn't have a clear view of the wings.

[ 28. March 2006, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]

 

Identification is something still on my long list of things to do when time permits. I’m sure RAF records can clear-up who used what and where. Most likely they were Spitfires and neither specific gull-winged planes or experienced dive-bomber pilots as the bombing was dangerously inaccurate.

No.9

 

I really doubt German used such a trick, because there were no more P40 used by USAF late war on European front, flying P40 at this place and time could only be very noticed, and therefore blow up their cover !!!

I won't even develop about the logistical nightmare (P40 ammo and fuel, different to those used by Germans).

There are so many identification issues among WWII pilot, ground personal are even more likely to make mistakes

 

I forgot US planes using the weird unit system for speed, altitude and fuel gauge, and not the metric system German pilots were used to...

About the Stuka, the first thing that strikes me (aha!) is that Stuka wasn't under widespread use on the western front by the end of the war, and mostly used at night.

By 1945, allies had so many efficient planes for ground attack (P47, P38, tempest, Typhoon etc)... it's hard to believe they had to use the old outdated Stuka

about identification : Stuka cannot barely be misidentified because it had seegull wings (very few planes had such wings on the ETO) AND non retractible landing gear which is very very rare especialy for a monoplan dive bomber

 

the Ju 87D 3 and D-5 were very stable platofrms for night ground attack work as you mentioned both on the west and Ost fronts in late 44 -45. On the Ost front several of the SG's had the very effective 10th Panzerstaffles equipped with G-1's and G-2's, primary purpose of these kanon birds was to delay Soviet armror breakthroughs as well as the last monthly defence of Berlin from February through May of 45. The Ju 87 performed it's functions quite well even though antiquated by early 44, many of the SG's turned to the more fighter based Fw 190F's that later were equipped with the very effective Panzerblitz rockets. Sadly information specifing these Ost front SG's is rather lacking except for brief occurance through the Freiburg and Berlin archiv's