French assistance to U.S. independence

From a post Lyndon wrote on the "Most Decisive Battle" thread in the WWII section :

Didn´t the Americans want their independence for purely selfish reasons as well, if you look at it that way ?

Napoleon did however most cunningly resurrect the Armed Neutrality Coalition, originally formed in 1780, consisting of Sweden, Denmark-Norway and Russia. This coalition was formed as a response to British interference with the free trade of these countries. And with the assistance of Napoleon they managed to break the British blockade to the benefit of both France and the U.S.

 

Oh, come on!

All politics is motivated by selfish reasons.

By your logic we should all be grateful to Hitler for starting WW2 since it eliminated colonialism for good.

 

America should be, WW2 bankrupted Britain and gave America most of the wealth (or basis of) it has today.

 

Just an add-on for the bankruptcy info. Yes you are right and because of this Canada forgave a 2 billion pound sterling debt the UK owed. That is what friends do I guess?

I could use a friend or two like that. Please!

 

Cheers mate

 

Quite true, but then that's their own internal business. My point was that the French didn't help the American colonials out of freindship. It was simply because the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Churchill didn't like or trust communist Russia but hey they were fighting the Nazis and the Nazis had Britain cornered so why not help them.

You are right about the colonials though. It wasn't mainly about 'freedom' though that was the rallying cry and is now the myth. It was mostly about money. Rich Colonials wanted more control over their businesses and wanted to expand and exploit the land further east, to the detriment of the Native Americans. Britain blocked this and were actually pretty much sympathetic to the Native Americas (well, for THOSE days anyway) and this was one of the main grudges the Colonials had. As it turned out, the Colonials never forgave the Native Americans for mostly siding with the British during the War of Independance and the result was that the next 100 years saw most of them exterminated. They were looked upon as not much more than pests. You have to ask the question, 'Who's freedom was won' after this war? Did the black slaves also win their freedom?

 

But the Americans have nothing to be grateful for, France was only fighting for financial gain, whereas America during WW2 didn't, or so I have been told.

 

Of course America was fighting for economic gain, or rather regain, during WW2. All trade with Europe had been cut off by Hitler's expansion; the American economy certainly benefited from getting that back. When facing Japan, the Americans realized the threat towards their resources in the Pacific as well as being under direct attack.

 

"Money makes the world go round " la la la la la!

 

I've got 90,000 pounds in my pyjamas, I've got 40,000 French francs in my fridge. *mmmm, forgot the line* Lira, now the Deutschmark's getting dearer, and my Dollarbills would buy the Brooklyn Bridge!


Monty Python rules!

 

Lend me a fiver then as I need to top up my electric metre soon!

 

"Rich colonials" could never have pushed the revolution forward without the help of England. Each repressive law and tax served to infuriate the masses more and more, until it finally reached a critical mass.

Britain "pretty much sympathetic to the Native Americans"? Who do you think the "Indian" part of the "French and Indian War" was? And the Indians were pretty much non-participants in the actual Revolutionary War. We were going to treat them like crap regardless of their stance there anyhow. After all, they were in the way of progress (or some thought).

 

In a twisted way, we should be grateful to Hitler for starting WW2. Had he not, the world economy would have still been in the toilet and Communism would have spread like a cancer throughout the industrialized world with almost nothing to stop it.

 

And you wonder why you're disliked so intensely.

 

Ahem. Exactly what taxes?
Taxes paid by the average colonist were bog-all in comparison to those paid by the average oik in Britain, and mostly went towards funding the milita employed to defend said colonists.

 

Quite true Ricky. At the time of the revolution the average man on the street in Britain was far more heavily taxed than the American colonials. The cost of the earlier war and the DEFENDING of the Colonials had to be met by the British taxpayer, not the Colonials who actually benefited from it. I think it was only fair that the colonials started paying their way and it wasn't a great deal. When all is said and done there wasn't really a huge outcry for independance at the beginning. Even after it began most people didn't agree with it and most people in Broitain certainly didn't. It was mainy pushed by the rich colonials just so they could get rid of Britain and have contol of more wealth and expand eastwards and no matter what anybody says the British didn't treat the Indians a fraction as badly as the Colonials did afterwards. There were many, many Indians on the British side during the war. In fact that was part of the propaganda the Colonials used. There was one false story which showed Indians scalping and brutalising women in the name of their British 'masters' and this helped to enrage the Colonials more than anything. The Colonials resorted to butchering and mutilating Redcoats first and they were actually far worse at it but due to clever manipulation of the facts the Colonials were led to believe it was all one way from the British.

Sheesh! Some people watch too many Mel friggin' Gibson movies and think that's how it was! British = Nazis! :roll:

As I said, did the Indians gain their 'freedom'? Did the black slaves??

 

When did women get the vote in America?
Just curious.

 

Nationwide in 1920, although some states started before then.

 

Ta.
About the same as everywhere else, then.

 

Can't speak to the level of taxation in England at the time but:

1764-Sugar Act
1764-Currency Act (not a tax but repression)
1765-Stamp Act
1765-Quartering Act (this actually paid for our so-called protection)
1767-Townshend Revenue Acts
1773-Tea Act
1774-Intolerable Acts (again not a tax but repression)