Battle of the kursk

That was of course one and a half years later and after Speer's Miracle in September 1944. It's amazing what the Germans could pump ut of their flattened factories in 1944, which provided the equipment needed for the Ardennes.

 

Yes, but I have to wonder how much of the armor was stripped from other fronts. And I'm certain that the panzer units on the Easter Front would have given their eyeteeth to have been provided with all those tanks and assault guns.

 

Naturally. The decision to go for the Ardennes offensive was as inevitable as it was futile.

 

Why inevitable? I've always wondered why Hitler, given his obssession with the Eastern Front, didn't use the armor sent to the Ardennes in Russia, where it might well have done some good.

 

I wonder what effect it would have had if the Germans had launched their last offensive against the British 2nd Army instead. 80,000 causalties ina month might have crippled the British war effort.

 

In the battle of kursk the Russian losses were much higher than German ones, but the Russians could replace their losses the germans couldnt.

The Panthers that toke part in the battle were overall a failure, most of them never saw the battlefield because they broke down trying to get there...but the panthers werent without succes, in one of the offensives the remaining panthers caused havoc in Russian lines, like this radio message from the frontline testafies.....:

"Enemy introduced new tank !

Shape roughly similar to 'Tridsatchedverka' (T-34).

Tank is heavily armored, weight is est. 40-50 tons.

Armament is probably 88mm AA gun.

We had losses at combat ranges beyond 2,000m. ..."

Regards, KBO

 

It was inevitable because Germany couldn't win a defensive war. Simply because the Allies could replace losses quicker than the Germans. This is why the only chance the Germans had of winning the war lay in a surprise offensive, which may have destroyed more Allied units than they could replace, which defensive war couldn't.

The fact that the Ardennes Offensive couldn't possibly have succeded is the ultimate proof for me that Germany couldn't win the war anymore; it was their only chance and it couldn't succeed.

Why didn't Hitler use his armour in Russia? It was estimated that the Russians had around 555 divisions in action, whereas the Western Allies were estimated to have only around 60 to 80. On which front do you think the 40 reserve divisions OKW could make free for the offensive would have mattered most?

Also please read:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=55196
Please ignore the fact that I'm linking to another forum... My username on the AHF is Dessek Warrior.

 

The Western Allies had 52 divisions in North-West Europe at the end of November 1944 and 22 in Italy.
The Germans had 63 divisions in NWE, 22 in combat in Italy and 139 on the Eastern Front.
The Soviets must have had over 550, about 57 Tank and Mechanized Corps (actually division sized units), 121 Guards Infantry Divisions, and 365-399 line infantry divisons and a fairly large number of Cavalry divisions (17 Guards and perhaps as many as 50+ line).
Even discounting the cavalry and counting a Soviet Rifle division as 1/3 of a western infantry division, the Soviets still had over 200. And the Soviets weren't likely to agree to any kind of political settlement, something Hitler believed the Western allies might do after a significant defeat.

 

i was surprised at how little many tigers were lost during the battle

if they are so good how come they didn't projuce :angry: more

 

Maybe they where to expensive?

If you look back to it now, you would say; ''why didn't they produced less Panzer III and IV, and more Tigers''

Who knows what ''Hitler and his Generals'' where thinking...

 

The Tigers were never intended as main battle tanks, so there was no reason for a big production.

Christian

 

But thats the question, why didn't they make it there main battle tank?

 

It wasn't designed to be a multi-purpose tank, it was designed to destroy other tanks either defensively or as an armoured spearhead. As an MBT a tank should be much closer to the average between firepower, protection and mobility (weight, speed, engine power etc).

 

if the germans had opted for a main battle tank i think they would have gone 4 the panther big style and complimented it with the tigers and a small number of tank destroyers, and dropped the panzer 4 altogether.

 

Bad idea, the Tiger though being a great tank, would not be suitable as a MBT. Lets say that for every couple of PanzerIvs you build one Tiger, a tank is useful not only in defeating other tanks but also for its primary reason for existance, supporting infantry. Sometimes the simple presence of a tank would turn the tide in a skirmish, so having less tanks would be less effective in the bigger picture as you have to spread them more thinly and there would be more units without tank support. Add to it the fact that the PanzerIV is a great tank for its weight and you get the idea that what im saying is not complete ****

 

The germans delayed to much to get more tanks and if you have ever noticed a hole bunch load of tanks deputed and mabe the germans thought it would be like when the first invading just over run the little weak russian tanks or move around the monsture tanks but instead they found a well planed soviet force waiting for them

 

The tank battles areound Prokovaka were the largest and the most famous part of the battle of Kursk. Another reason the Soviets won was because the SS failed to take Oboyan Road, the underbelly to Kursk. The German's main problem was the new Panthers and Tigers were having problems and Hitler wanted to wait for more of them. That was how the Russians had time to prepare such a massive defensive barrier. Another help for the russians was the underground Lucy. They sent the soviets info on the Germans attakc force. Hope this helps

 

i heard that it helped the allies becouse it brought the germans out of the defnece into the open so they could get licked

 

It forced the Germans to fight a mobile, offensive and therefore costly war even though the Allies held all the cards of mobile warfare: air superiority, an abundance of fuel, reserve units and replacements. The Germans lacked all of these things and hence they could not win.

 

To true but i suppose they didn't want to sit and wait for the americans to come