Someone recognize the tank on picture ?

Someone recognize the tank on picture? Sorry for the bad quality of this picture.

I think the number on the tank is 700, maybe it's also possible to trace the number so I now where this picture can be taken ?

 

Does it resemble the white-painted tank in this picture? Darn I should have taken a close-up. It is probably the British Matilda, aka the "queen of the desert". British tank enthusiasts in this forum probably can tell us more about this machine.

 

Definately a Matilda 2. The hardcore members of this site will be able to tell you where this one was built and probably what it commander had for breakfast the day that photo was taken.

 

Spot on liang!

British Matilda II.

Designed as an 'infantry tank', to accompany the infantry in assaults.

It had slow speed (as it was meant to keep pace with infantry), heavy armour (for obvious reasons) and a piddling little gun (2pdr, = 40mm) which was reasonably good as an Anti-tank gun at mid / close range against tanks without too much armour, and was really too small a caliber to provide a reasonable High-Explosive shell.

Its saving grace was the thick armour, which made it pretty much invulnerable until the 88mm arrived on the scene, hence the title 'Queen of the Desert'.
Often when attacking Italian forts the British would just drive Matildas up to the front, when the Italians retreated the British Infantry would mop them up.

 

Thanks for the quick answers to all of you !

How about the turret number ?

 

Hello.
It could be a Lend-Lease Russian Matilda.

 

@Patrice,


Can you give me more information about your posting please.

Thanks

 

Hello Bladerunner and welcome.
Russian received approximately 1000 tanks Matilda II during the WWII.
The large white numbers were usually used by Russian to number their tanks.
Another significance for these number will be a calculation of the tanks destroyed on battle fields but then figure 700 is a little too high
A link on Lend-Lease Tanks:
http://www.battlefield.ru/library/lend/index.html

 

The surroundings of the picture do look desert-ish though.

Welcome to the forum, bladerunner. A Dutchman! Feest!

 

Hello Roel,


Thanks . . . . biertje?

It indeed does look desert-ish but I think, when reading the answers on my question, it should be a Lend-Lease Tank in Russia.

This because the Obergefreiter who took the picture was in Russia and Poland from about July '42 until September '44.

In September '44 he came to the Netherlands where he wass killed in action in the town called Lottum by the Maas in Limburg.

Now about the number on the turret (I think it si the number 700), do you have any idea who can help?

 

Heb je niets sterkers? :lol:

I don't know who could help you on the Lend-Lease Matildas. Do you have any other pictures of this tank? Why do you need it?

 

- - alleen een sterk verhaal - -


I need this information for the exact location the picture is taken.

I'm doing some research on a German Obergefreiter (in assignment of his daughter) in the whereabouts, battles, campains etc etc of her father in the ww2.

He served in a Panzer-Brigade wich where in Russian campains also and he probably finished of this Matilda.

 

Unfortunately the only clue the picture provides is that it is somewhere flat, possibly with traces of snow on the ground.
Which is most of the USSR!!!

 

it's a lend lease Infantry Tank A12 MAtilda Mk IIa
http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?BKL-200104 heres a pamphlet ( in russian ) thatll help you.

Photo was taken in the winter of 1941/42.. judging by the lack of vegetation its on the steppe in southern russia. But according to this article they were used at the moscow offensive :

The first tank models that were achieve USSR were British Mk II "Matilda II", Mk III and Mk IV "Valentine". They arrived just before the Russian winter counter-offensive near Moscow. The Red Army was highly luck in tanks, so this military aid was opportunely. Mostly good for Russians was "Matilda II". It was nearly undefeated for any German tanks and AT-guns, but still was good with their 2-pound gun (about 42 mm).

the lack of vegetation is real tricky though. theres 3 possible locations :
south steppes of russia.
northern russia east of leningrad or south of moscow. my bet is your vehicle was involved in the attack at Kharkov or along the Donets against the german 6 and 17 armies.






looks like the barrel was spiked by the germans after the tread went out.

http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/matilda/matilda.html this is a detailed report on the vehicle

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/lend/matilda.html another article on use in ussr

The engine and the planetary gear-box were rather reliable, but the well protected running gear was too complex and quickly broke because of Russian rough terrain. 2987 tanks were totally produced and 1084 vehicles were sent to the USSR untill August 1943.

interesting link here.. tank #323 destroyed approx 1943 unk loc. its a t34 notice the shape and location of the turret lettering.

 

panzer brigades were gone by this time in the war except for a few in france which were armed with captured weapons and used as trainers.

start researching the Izyum counterattack and locate the units that were armed with Matildas there.

there was only 1 series of battles in world war 2 between nov 41 and aug 42 where these tanks were engaged under winter conditions in flat Steppe terrain. and that was Izyum. the fact that the tank wasnt knocked out but was tracked and then had the barrel blown says that it was one of the vehicles that broke through in the direction of Poltava and was abandoned. notice the semi -thawed ground.. this points to feb-april of 1942

in 1943 i think the 23rd gaurds brigade at kursk had some... but this is an abandoned / undamaged tank that was deliberatley sabotaged by its crew... and the terrain at kursk was rolling hills. there was no need to spike their own guns during the uranus attacks in 43 and the tank was simply too slow to have been involved there anyhow.

also focus on 300 as the turret number not 700 ( 300 is the tac number of 23rd tank )

and note the fact that both engine hatch covers are open...

Ill give an educated guess.. mid may 1942 14-20 may or thereabouts 38 russian army - 23rd tank corps.. group bobkin.. mironova/grushino area. That puts your Gefreiter in the 3rd,14th or 16th or 23 panzer Division. in army group south..
i can narrow it down further but basically yer tank was probly one of the first group to break thru and had to dump the vehicle after the breakthough. any time after that it wouldve been blown up or seriously damaged and abandoned a bit faster.

this is all off the cuff, unsubstantiated stuff but it gives ya a fairly accurate picture of what an where this tank would be.

 

@Gothard,

I'm impressed !

Thanks for you information.

I did some more research last week and can tell you more. The Obergefreiter went in jul. 42 to Russia and was with the 3. Company of the Grenadier-Regiment (mot) 35 25. Inf.Div.

Grenadier-Regiment (mot) 35 25. Inf.Div Later Panzergrenadier-Bataillon 2107 of the Panzerbrigade 107

the first letter available from this guy is from March 43 (the letters before where burned while his hause in Stuttgart wass bombed by the Allied)

So I have to wait for the WAST report. (can take a few months)

In July 43 he is in Brest-Litowsk heading Orel.
In August 43 - hospital due to grenate-splitter
In November 43 - again in Hospital due to grenate-splitter (Hospital Orscha)
In January 44 - Hospital due to shotwound (Hospital Borissow)
In February 44 - Warschau
In August 44 - Poland ?
In September 44 - Lottum/Netherlands

 

k Ill give you details on that That puts yer vehicle in the area s of moscow between tula and Kharkov.. thats the northern area of the Izyum fighting but pretty darn close ( within 100 miles or so ) but on the other side of the salient ( North as opposed to South ) 23 tank Corps was the reserve force during the battles so theres a good chance it was in the area. there wouldnt have been much snow on the ground in July so he may have gotten the picture from a dead russian or another soldier =)... and the fighting im describing was a year before he arrived.

neat thing about pz. brig 107 is that the pz grenadier Battalion was Mechanised and operated in halftracks... prior to that he was truckmounted infantry. the Pz. brigades were simply 2 battalions of Panthers, 1 Mech infantry battalion and a company of engineers and anti-aircraft. they formed in response to the fighting in central russia. if your guy was near Orscha in mid 1944 hes EXTREMELYlucky to be alive cus if i remember 25 mot. was wiped out in Bagration. that Jan 1944 wound saved his life. BUT if he was in the Orel area in July 43 the tank is definetely 23rd tank brigade cus they were in the area... maybe a leftover from the destruction of 2 army and the drive from novgorod to the orel area in winter 42 as part of the Jupiter attacks as oposed to the winter 41/42 attacks i described earlier.

1.42 XXXXVII 2. Pz. Armee Mitte Brjansk, Orel
2.42-5.43 LIII 2. Pz. Armee Mitte Brjansk, Orel

 

ive extremely detailed info on the maas river battles. theres a book called "The forgotten battle" that describes it in intimate detail.

 

Thanks for you info.

Any more info you have about the .25 I would be very happy to read. Also looking for feldpost - documents and pictures of this units, original or copies.

I trie to get the book also

Richard

 

The Forgotten Battle: Overloon and the Maas Salient, 1944-45
by A. Korthals Altes, N. K. C. A. In't Veld, G. G. Van Dam

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 11-4721613


From Publishers Weekly
This account of the fight for southern Holland during WWII is told largely from the viewpoint of surviving participants. The Battle of Overloon and the Maas Salient was fought by British and U.S. divisions against paratroopers who formed the backbone of German resistance, but the emphasis is on the terror experienced by Dutch civilians. The narrative is studded with unexpected scenes: chaotic conditions in an insane asylum on the edge of the battlefield; farmers asking soldiers to mercy-kill their suffering animals; the inexplicable appearance of a German cavalry unit that destroyed itself by attacking British tanks; a British officer stalking Germans with a bow and arrows. A less frequently told story is the extent of looting and pillaging carried out by British enlisted men in liberated zones. The authors, Dutch historians of WWII, have written an engrossing account of an obscure but not unimportant campaign of the European theater. Illustrations.
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.


Language Notes
Text: English (translation)
Original Language: Dutch --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.


Book Description
"The Forgotten Battle" has remained alive and vivid in the mind of its thousands of participants. This necessary and brilliantly crafted work examines the battles of Overloon and Maas Salient, the "other" side of WWII in Europe-a bloody slugging match between equally skilled opponents that comprised the reality of the "broad front" strategy.

from the looks of it the origional book is in Dutch.. good for you =).. lot of these locals that contributed are still alive and may have personal details.