E-100

Take a look here:

http://henk.fox3000.com/maus.htm

It says this about the E-100:

 

It was a plan not carried out, but plans for an 150mm was being made as you can see, they were just never realised.
The 128mm KwK44 was a better solution...

KBO

 

Typ E-100: Seit Juni 1943 bei Adler entwickelt und bei Kriegsende nahezu fertiggestellt. Das Gewicht betrug 140 Tonnen, wovon 52 Tonnen auf den Turm entfielen, der die 15cm KwK44 L/38 tragen sollte. Als Triebwerk sollte der 1050PS starke Maybach HL295 dienen.



KBO has a definite point

 

Bang goes my contribution!
Where did you get your info from?

As an aside - why would they arm the E-100 (smaller than the Maus) with a bigger gun than the Maus? Was that just in the original design specification, or did they seriously attempt to give the E-100 a 150mm gun?
As it happened it seems the E-100 had problems with just the 'standard' Maus turret...
It would probably have been better off with a Tiger 2 turret grafted on!

 

It was just the original design specification. It was later changed to the 128mm L/55 kwk44...

KBO

 

http://www.steelpanthershq.valka.cz/vie ... 2002082901
http://www.steelpanthershq.valka.cz/vie ... 2002080801
http://www.achtungpanzer.de/proto.htm
http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/strony_www/maus.htm EXCELLENT
http://www.panzer.punkt.pl
http://ablecd.wz.cz/vendeta/e-100.php
http://www.ostpanzer.boom.ru/Maus.html
http://www.ostpanzer.nm.ru/index.html
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm
http://members.aol.com/kubinka/maus.htm
http://www.fronta.cz/index.php?sekce=1200&clanek=66
http://www.kovi.hu/maus.html

http://www.steelpanthershq.valka.cz/clanky/e100.jpg
http://www.achtungpanzer.de/blpr/b_maus.jpg

Technické údaje - shrnutí:
Posádka:
6 mužů (velitel, řidič, dva střeleci, dva nabíječi)




Výzbroj:
1x 150mm KwK44 L/38
2x kulomet MG 42 ráže 7,92mm


12,8 cm KwK 44 L/51 - kanon, který měl být použit u supertěžkého tanku Maus.


15 cm KwK 44 L/38 - kanon, který měl být použit u supertěžkého tanku E-100.


17 cm KwK 44 - nebyl použit v žádném tanku, pouze se uvažovalo o jeho umístění v plánovaném supertěžkém tanku E-100.


ok heres a huge collection of websites.. most with bibliographies, photos and source info. the sires are in czech,polish,german ,russian and english but there are DOZENS of references to the 150mm KwK for the E100 and the 128 for the MAus..

ill let some of you native language guys sort out the mess.

 

this is the only photo ive seen with 2 maus side by side[/img]

 

here's a picture from Achtungpanzer.de.

Looks like it would have caused the alleis real truble if it had come into production.
There were even plans for a 174mm kwk gun..

 

KBO
Nowhere does it say that the E-100 was to have a 150 mm. gun, still you keep saying that it was going to have this gun or at least that it was planned. Repeating an untrue statement doesn't make it true.

And no, there were no plans for a 174 mm. gun.

Gothard
Perhaps you could supply us with some none-Internet sources (i.e. books) to back up your statement?

Excluding the Polish, Checz and Russian websites you refer to, I found errors in all the websites below. Here is a list of the first error on each page I spotted:

achtungpanzer.de
The Maus didn't have a 150 mm. gun
(there are an extreme amount of errors here - such as claiming that the Panther II would have had an 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71, which is a historical impossibility)

achtungpanzer.com
Armour penetration is given for APCR ammunition, rather than APCBC, even though no APCR ammunition would have been available. There are also storage inaccuracies.

Maus through the AOL site
Again with the 150 mm. gun, plus a lot of careless statements.

I could no doubt find more if I had my books to look in as well, rather than just memory.

Furthermore, what are you trying to prove with a picture of a model?

 

Theres a fairly compresensive statement regarding planning on one of the posted websites, give me a moment. Ive ordered the Doyle books thu amazon.. give me a week or so to get the docs. I think the model pic is relevant as it shows the 150mm gun mounted which demonstrates intent.

for book reference use General Von Senger und Etterlin "German Tanks of World War II" He refers repeatedly to the 150mm KwK in both the MAus and the E-100. I think the 150 idea was scrapped as regards the Maus but was left in place regarding the E-100.


DIE DEUTSCHEN PANZER 1926-1945 by F.M. von Senger und Etterlin

228pp.
Publisher: Munchen J.F.Lehmanns Verlag 1959
Illustrator: 168 Abbildungen,66 Skizzen

 

Christian if you read it again you will actually read that it said that the MAUS was "planned" to have a 150mm gun, not that it mounted it, and it also says it mounted the 128mm KwK44 in the end. Furthermore there was actually a prototype PantherII with an 88mm L/71 gun....

And lastly the model i showed was just to show how it would have looked, now ease down abit, it sounds like your angry...

KBO

 

Gothard
The model is not a WWII model, but a present-day one, and thus show nothing about the intent (or lack thereof). If you look at contemporary German mock-ups, you will see that they are much more simple than the model depicted, and that they show no weathering.

von Senger u. Etterlin's book deals with the tanks in general, rather than focussing on one specific tank, and thus makes a lot of the mistakes other generalized books makes. Just because he refers to a specific armament doesn't make it true, and is certainly not evidence to suggest that a 150 mm. was to be kept for the E-100.

The E-100 was specifically desgned to mount the Maus turret, featuring the 12,8 cm Kw.K. L/55.

By the way, which book have you ordered through Amazon? They don't carry the Panzer Tracts series, and aside from Panzer Tracts No.6 and their Encyclopedia, Jentz and Doyle have not published anything regarding the E-100 to my knowledge. The Encyclopedia is hardly a credible source, which is openly admitted by both Jentz and Doyle.

KBO
Yes, a 150 mm. gun was considered for the Maus, but that doesn't have anything to do with the E-100.

As for the Panther II - no other gun than the 7,5 cm Kw.K. L/70 was considered for this vehicle, and the Schmalturm was never considered for the Panther II, as the Schmalturm was designed after the Panther II design was abandonned.
In addition, the Schmalturm with the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L/71 was dropped at an early stage, as it would have required increasing the turret ring diameter with 100 mm., and this wasn't acceptable. This turret was also proposed after the Panther II was dropped.

I say again - the Panther II was never intended with the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L/71.

 

Christian when i say considderet i mean there was a proposal to put a 88mm L/71 gun on the Panther, and a prototype turret was actually made.

Secondly the E-100 was first designed to carry the 150mm L/38 kwk44 gun and not the 128mm gun, but it was realized later that it was better to fit the 128mm gun. The plans for a 150mm gun on the E-100 were there, but they were scrapped in favour for the 128mmm gun.

Regards, KBO

 

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heres my latest amazon orders if it helps any.. dont know why it would interest you.

 

SCHWERE Panzerkampfwagen D.W. to E - 100 including the Tigers ) (Panzer Tracts, # 6)
by Thomas L. Hentz (Author), Hilary L. Doyle (Illustrator)


also ordered from amazon as of 5 minutes ago.

 

Are you rich or something ???? "jesus" thats many books at one time, this will cost a fortune...

KBO

 

yes I am. and yes they did but thats 6 months worth of orders. the Germany at war series i think was about 4500 dollars for all 11 books. I also have oughly 3,000 to 5,000 war related books in my library, covering all of history im afraid.... ive just started to develop an interest in technical aspects and macroeconomics of world war 2. So Im tring to do a little catch up.
I've bought a game called High Command and I'm trying to develop it into a modern PC wargame.

 

http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/eseries/e50.html

For the E-50/E-75 series the 7.5 cm was dropped and replaced with a development of the 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71, the 8.8 cm KwK 44 L/71. The breech was redesigned to take new ammunition which used a shorter, fatter cartridge to ease handling in the reduced space. Ammunition stowage was all in the hull, unlike the Tiger II where some was stored in the large turret bustle. The gun was mounted forward so the breech did not protrude into the turret too much.

http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/eseries/e100.html

The E-100 was originally designed as an Waffenamt alternative to the Porsche-designed superheavy Maus tank. It was authorized in June, 1943 and work in earnest continued until 1944 when Hitler officially ended development of superheavy tanks. After Hitler's announcement, only three Alder employees were allowed to continue assembly of the prototype, and the work was given lowest priority. Even with these handicaps, the three workers were able to virtually complete the prototype by war's end at a small Henschel facility near Paderborn. The prototype lacked only a turret (which was to be identical to the Maus turret save in armament).


For it's initial tests, a Tiger II Maybach HL230P30 engine had been fitted. This engine, of course, was far too weak to properly power the 140 ton E-100. The production engine was to be the Maybach HL234. The HL234 developed 800hp, which is only 100hp better than the HL230P30. Some sources indicate that a Diamler-Benz diesel which developed 1000hp would have ultimately been used.


The Maus mounted the 12.8cm KwK 44 L/55 found in the Jagdtiger. Using the same turret, the E-100 was initially slated to use the 15cm KwK44 L38, but provision was made to eventually up-gun the vehicle with a 17cm KwK 44.

The E-100 was very conventional in its architecture. The standard rear-engine / front-drive layout was maintained. The engine deck of the Tiger II was also carried over into this design (rather than the updated designof the E 50/75). The suspension was characteristic of the E-series, however, in that it was of the externally-mounted Belleville Washer type. While the engine-deck layout of the prototype was taken directly from the Tiger II, it is entirely possible that it would have been changed to match the E 50/75 had production of the E-series actually began to allow for maximum commonality of components.


The armor on the E-100 was designed to withstand hits from just about any anti-tank round of the day. Armor on the turret ranged from 200mm on the sides and rear to 240mm on the front. The turret roof was protected by a seemingly paltry 40mm of armor. Unfortunately, the round shape of the turret front could have deflected shots downward into the top of the superstructure. Armor protection on the superstructure varried from 200mm on the front to a total of 180mm on the sides and 150mm on the rear. The top of the superstructure was protected by the same 40mm of armor found on the turret. The hull had 150mm of armor on the front and rear and 120mm on the sides behind the suspension. Protection on the bottom of the hull was good at 80mm.


Given the armored protection of the E-100, most tanks would have needed a shot to deflect into the top of the superstructure from the turret front to knock it out. The vehicle would have, however, been highly vunerable to air attack as the angles presented to dive bombers or fighter/bombers would have been protected to only 40mm. This protection is comparable to the Tiger II in the same areas.



Panzerkampfwagen E-100
Crew: 5 Armament: one 15cm KwK44 L/38 + one 7.5cm KwK44 L/36.5 + one (or three) 7.92mm MG34
Weight: 140 tons Traverse: 360o (power)
Length: 10.27 meters Elevation: -7o +23o
Width: 4.48 meters Engine: Maybach HL234
Height: 3.29 Gearbox: 8 forward, 4 reverse (with provision for Mekydro transmission)
Radio: FuG5 Speed: 40 km/hr

 

very nice information Gothard, and very similar to mine to.

Regards, KBO