1st El-Alamein (1st - 4th July)

Hello,

I am posting my second time, and question is quite similar to my first.
I need to know all Aircraft used by Germans and Britans in 1st Alamein war (1st - 4th July).

Thanks for your time,
Nebo

 

213 Sqn. RAF, El Alamein, Egypt, 1942; Hawker Hurricane MkIIC

 

I suppose Hawker Hurricane MkIIC is Britan airplane, right?

I assume there were more airplanes, not just one.

Nebo

 

The Hurricane is British, yes. Are you going to limit yourself to aircraft actually used in the battle, or are you looking for all Axis and Allied aircraft available at the time ?

Welcome to the forum.

 

Overall (and not detailed in terms of aircraft sub-types etc)

German:
Fighters:
Messerschmitt Bf 109
Messerschmitt Bf 110 (also for ground attack)
Bombers:
Junkers Ju 87 Stuka
Transport:
Junkers Ju 52

British/Free French/Commonwealth/etc:
Fighters:
Hawker Hurricane (Mk IIC & IID, mostly used as ground attack)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk. V
Curtiss P.40 Warhawk
Bombers:
Bristol Blenhiems (Mks I & IV)
Douglas Bostons
Martin Marylands
Potez 633 (and/or other aircraft from the Potez '63' family, like the 631, etc)
Transport:
DC-3 Dakota
Bristol Bombay

Italian:
Fighters:
Macchi MC200 / 202
Fiat G50bis
Bomber:
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79
Transport:
Savoia-Marchetti SM.82

The full list of Italian bombers & Transport aircraft is long and full of very Italian names, which my memory does not retain well. Most of the light/medium bombers were fairly pathetic and only used as airfield decoys by this stage of the war anyway.

All the aircraft mentioned had the potential to be involved at El Alamein, but I'm not sure which ones actually were...

 

I believe the Allied air forces had air superiority at the time. Which probably means that not many Axis aircraft were involved in the actual battle.

One very interesting aircraft entered service in June 1942 btw, and could have been involved in the battle; The Hurricane Mk.IID.

 

Oh, and the Germans did have one squadron of Focke-Wulf Fw-190 fighters in N Africa.
try here for more info generally:

http://www.tgplanes.com/Public/snitz/to ... PIC_ID=421

 

Yes, the II.Gruppe, Jagdgeschwader 2 was deployed to Tunisia. Not sure exactly when though. They were equipped with the Fw 109A-4.

I had a brief look through some of my books, and found an article where D. Weston-Burt writes that when he joined the No.6 Sqn on June 22nd, 1942 in the desert west of Alexandria "the squadron had already been in operations with its Hurricane IIDs during the latter part of the 8th Army´s retreat to the El Alamein line".

And, I believe the No.112 Sqn flew support missions for the 8th Army at the time of El Alamein as well. The No.112 Sqn was equipped with the Kittyhawk Mk.I ( P-40E ) at the time if I´m not mistaken.

 

Thanks for replies guys!

Well, I am not looking for all aircraft, just some main airplanes from both sides in following categories:

- Fighters
- Bombers
- Transport
(- Ground attack planes ?)

I don't need ALL airplanes, just mainly used and most important aircraft.

Thanks,
Nebo

 

Then my original list, plus the P-40 Kittyhawk (how on earth did I forget that???) should do.

Italians -
(I apologise for spelling all the maker's names wrong!)
Transport:
Savoia-Marchetti SM.82

Bomber:
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79


As for sub types, I will add them to my list as we go...

 

Ricky, you made a classic mistake. The Ju-88 wasn't the Stuka, that was the Ju-87!

The German list should read:
Fighters:
Messerschmidt Bf109
Messerschmidt Bf110 (also ground attack aircraft)
Focke-Wulf Fw190

Bombers:
Junkers Ju-87 Stu.ka.
Junkers Ju-88
Heinkel He-111

Transport:
Junkers Ju-52

 

No - I don't think the Ju88 or He111 were used in the Desert.

I can't believe I made that error!
I have gone back & edited my post, so I don't look bad...

 

These two bombers were used in the mediterranean though, don't you think they flew missions just slightly off that area?

 

To what purpose?

What in N Africa was worth sending bombers across the Med to attack (bear in mind they'd have paltry bomb loads because of the weight of fuel needed, and certainly not for army support - that would be an all-time worst response time!) when you have plenty of Stukas sitting around?

P.S: I am simply updating my original list rather than continually adding new posts - keep an eye on it!

 

Have we confirmed that the Fw 190s were in the desert at the time of El Alamein ?

Another one : The Dewoitine D.520 was flown by both Vichy and Free French units in North Africa.

 

Fw 190s apparently did not arrive until December 1942 - sorry, a Red Herring there.

Dewontine D.520s - Vichy French were only really involved with Operation Torch, but the Free French may have used them over Alamein. Castelot/Patrice - any thoughts?

Also therefore the Potez 63 family of bombers etc, in use by the Free French!

 

Thanks guys!

So, is this the final list:

Germans:

Fighters:
Messerschmidt Bf109
Messerschmidt Bf110 (also ground attack aircraft)
Focke-Wulf Fw190

Bombers:
Junkers Ju-87 Stu.ka.
Junkers Ju-88
Heinkel He-111

Transport:
Junkers Ju-52


British:

Fighters:
Hawker Hurricane (Mk IIC & IID, mostly used as ground attack)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk. V
Curtiss P.40 Warhawk

Bombers:
Bristol Blenhiems (Mks I & IV)
Douglas Bostons
Martin Marylands
Potez 633 (and/or other aircraft from the Potez '63' family, like the 631, etc)

Transport:
DC-3 Dakota
Bristol Bombay

Italian:

Fighters:
Macchi MC200 / 202
Fiat G50bis

Bomber:
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79

Transport:
Savoia-Marchetti SM.82

?

And where should P-40 Kittyhawk go?

Thanks,
Nebo

 

The P-40 was designed as a fighter, and the RAF did use them as such, but IIRC, they were used largely in the ground attack role, where their superior low altitude performance made them very effective. The Kittyhawk (or Warhawk, as it was called in the USAAF), could easily defeat the Me 109 at low altitudes.

 

Ok, P-40 Kittyhawk & P-40 Warhawk are essentially the same plane.
No Focke-Wulf Fw190
No Junkers Ju 88
No Heinkel He 111

Otherwise, yup, that's about it!
(there were probably more Italian bombers around, though)

 

The Italians did send quite a few planes to North Africa, but most of them (if not all of them) were destroyed.