How did WWII tankgunners aim?

I keep asking this myself many years now ( :lol: ), and now i finally found a forum that could help me answer my question:

How did tankgunners aim, did the gunner had any ''special'' tools on the tank witch he could calculate where to aim to hit the target or did they already have an (maybe semi) automatic aiming system on there tank?

Thanks alot!

 

The Germans used the supurb gun-sights for range finding at up to 2500-3000m, but sometimes with the Tiger atleast, a traditional Range-finder was used for very long range shots.

This is the gun-sight used by the Panther, provided by 'Zeiss optiks':

 

Basically you have a wee telescope linked to your gun barrel, the idea being that what you see through the 'scope is what your gun will hit at a set distance (say 1,000 yards). Obviously this can be adjusted in the field, and better quality lenses will have gradings marked for different distances.
Early British lenses were completely blank, and tank crew often added crosshairs by using threads from their berets* - I have even heard that they used blades of grass!

*With thanks to Merlin for that piece of info!

 

Nice explanation, but i don't think i understand...

But it goes like this:

At the gunners view there is some kind of glasses that has a crosshair in it... this is as far as i get... i don't understand how the distance calculator works...

 

This is a topic I have much to learn about myself, but I´ll try to explain what ( I think ) I know.

First the gunner or commander has to estimate the range to the target. This could be done in a number of different ways. The simplest way were by pure guesswork. It could be done by observing the fall of the first shot, the first shot usually being the guesswork. One method was calle "Stadiametric", a target of known dimensions was compared to marks in the gunner´s sight. The stereoscopic rangefinder was in theory the most accurate rangefinder, but it depended on the user having perfect stereoscopic vision, which in fact very few men have. The most effective rangefinder was what they called the "coincidence rangefinder". I wont try to explain how this work right now as my understanding of it is still a bit vague.

As for sights, there were basically two types of sights used in WWII, not counting open sights, the telescopic sight and the periscopic sight. The telescopic sight was usually mounted coaxially with the gun which was both an advantage and a drawback. The advantage was that it was less chance of an error between the gun and the sight, the drawback that the gunner had to move his head up and down with the gun. The periscopic sight was usually mounted in the turret roof which made it less vulnerable a easier to use, but more prone to error because it had to be connected to the gun by means of an adjustable linkage.

Come on, I´m open to corrections.

 

No, you actually explained that pretty well ! :smok:

 

Hey, that was cool. i might have guessed some of that, but I had no idea how it was really done. I do have a question. A telescopic sight, would that be the tube see under the barrel on some tanks, or in other cases the other hole in the gund mantel? I know the 1st hole in the mantle is for the co-axil MG, I asways wondered why they might have 2.

 

I think I spelled 4 worlds wrong in that.

 

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we used to "T&A" gun sights (test and adjust) by this method.
on the end of the gun barrel were four chisel marks aT (12/03/06/09 o'clock) , inside a british tank beret was a long piece of black thread loosely tacked in.
you rubbed a smear of grease into each chisel cut, you placed a piece of thread from 12 to 06, and from 03 to 09 like cross wires on the barrel end.
y ou then removed the firing pin from breech block., looked through the hole and could see cross wires at barrel end, these were quartered like the telescope sight. you picked a building at about 1000 yards, sighted the gun on a corner of the building by using a quarter of the cross wires on barrel end , you then sighted the equivelent quarter on the scope to the same corner of building, now you have gun and scope adjusted to same target. This was quite accurate, but you would then use the "up 200" or down "200" after seeing where your first shot went!!!
still got my original beret with thread still in!!
Clear????

 

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PS. Blades of grass was a cavalry myth!
We still used the above method as late as 1948 on the Comets we had then!

 

That was a most enlightening post Merlin! Was that technique in the official manual?! I've seen pictures of wartime British trainee gunners at the 'pellet range' but their berets looked intact.

There are stories of T34 tankers driving into battle straight from the Stalingrad factory without gunsights fitted and having to peer through the breech and down the barrel to aim. The effectiveness of this at anything more than spitting distance is debatable but then they were desperate times.

 

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That was the official way that I was taught at the R.A.C. Gunnery School at L
lulworth Cove.
The black was loosely tacked in, it could be pulled, not effecting the beret in any way, it was about 2feet long, we are talking the old Monty beret here! Mind you, you had to be pretty smart at distance guessing! I ommitted to say you set your scope distance to the same as you estimated your building or whatever.
I recently visited Lulworth on an "Invite" and the present method is beyond me, any one brought up on a "game Boy" would eat it!
Unless the smart ar** japenese kid in the opposing tank saw you first!!!

 

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a further point of interest (if you are interested, this is one of my pet subjects!!) if you get a chance to look at a British WW2 AFV you will see the chisel marks, that is if no muzzle brake is fitted, we had to remove them for "T & A'ing"the last time I did this was in 48 in the Canal Zone of Egypt, we fired at a range in Shandur, the first time Comets were there, the results on the collected WW2 (all kinds) tanks was just a little spectacular! some shots went right through. (77mm) it might have been more difficult if they were firing back!!!

 

Merlin did you fight in WWII?

Just curious.

 

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Whoops, told you a porkie! For Canal zone 1948 read 1947, in 48 I was in :ibya with a different regiment on Staghounds! here is pic of Canal Zone Comet,!!!note how clean it is! as our CO once told the late Queen Mother when she commented on scruffiness of tanks,
"We are a fighting Regiment Mam!

 

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Jeffrey, sorry re answer to your WW2 question, Iwas too old!

 

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Where's the Merlin picture gone? I know it was there!

 

You said it yourself, it should probably be in the I dare you topic, or generally in the Members Lounge. Please post it there.

 

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Oh Dear! naughty Merlin! Consider wrist slapped and lose Three Brownie points! Try "I dare You" perhaps it's still there!

 

So you, Merlin, were a part of tank crew, right? Which one were you?