RELIGION

Good idea. I'm sure Roel will be happy to comment!

 

no doubt!!! Btw: Roel is an extremely mature mind, IMHO, for his age. I am astounded. "Are you Jewish, Roel?" :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

:lol:

We have some Jews in the family but they were all married in...
Thanks.

This is a bit of a pink-glasses view of the past, again... In the olden days (pre-industrial times), people worked from morning to evening all week and then were free on Sunday. So they got together in alehouses and got so roaring drunk that they didn't work on mondays, and occasionally didn't even work on tuesdays either. This was normal practice and nobody really expected people to work until tuesday.

 

And had a life expectancy about half of ours as well. I don't see either how sitting silently listening to minister for two or three hours can really be considered socialising. Socialising involves actual social interaction between a group of people, Church Sermons really were (Many are still) more like a Lecture than socialising.

 

No no no - the sermon is actually a relatively recent phenomona - it arose with Protestantism, out of the idea that you should take the 'Papist' ceremony out of the church service, and fill the time instead with some instruction / correction / scaring the congregation with tales of hellfire.

And church is the social point, because:
a) everybody goes. And I meant everybody.
b) before, and after, you congregate. Either in the pub (most Medieval churches had Medieval taverns next door) or with the aid of the ale brewed by the clergy...

 

I subscribe to Ricky´s view, which is essentially mine, too. You HAD to be there, an in BEST clothes. And there was always lots of talking, laughing etc (I know this is still so in the countryside in Eastern and Central Europe).

It was interesting to hear a little bit about Dutch mores; thanks Roel. Keep drinking! :lol:

 

Btw: I don´t spit when I go near a church. I actually was invited to some Christian Messes by friends an went, also for curiosity´s sake.
Catholics have also sermons!!! Ricky. Sometimes really interesting and even moving even for such an atheistic swine as myself.

 

You wish it was just a Dutch situation! This happened throughout Western Europe.

I don't drink by the way, because of the taste.

 

Not mentioning the Eastern part....

No, it´s actually not so bad over there. Btw: a funny coincidence. the Poles, staunch catholics, used to indulge in alcoholic binges at the same time. Now, both religion and alcohol are disappearing.

I thought again about faith: Some people take the thing not intellectually but emotionally. Like hassidim, for ex. Jews, being a rational people are also very emotional. Hassidim and similar brands of Judaism, sing, dance trance-like, repeat verses form Torah. In short: they experience G_d in the form of "happening" or meditation of sorts. They use old prescriptions for how to do it and it works for them. Is it rational? They reached collectively the conclusion that G_d cannot be understood intellectually, so they use the remaining powers of theirs to come closer to the Creator.
Is it rational? Roel? Anybody?

You didn´t ask why I always write G_d and not the full word. It´s pure superstition. It is forbidden in Judaism to spell the name of Him and I don´t do it. It does not cost me a dime. Who knows? Maybe I am making "money" out of it?

 

Rationally irrational. Whatever floats their boat, basically. I see dancing as a futile waste of precious energy usable for other creative and self-enhancing initiatives, and so I think these people are quite far off the track, but if it brings them closer to their god without harming anyone then it's fine by me.

I was wondering...
You did write "GOD" in one of your topic titles though.

 

They do now - I used to have a Catholic girlfriend & sat through quite a few services - but did not back in the Middle Ages...
Sermons are an Early Modern development (16th Century onwards)

 

It almost doesn´t count: once. Besides, it was to attract the audience to the worthy subject. Still a sin.....

Btw, Roel: how come you only happened to find weird priests in NL?
Do all reasonable people eschew priesthood? Say, in Poland, where, as people say, religion is sooo backward, they are well educated and open. The more intelligent quickly admit that faith or God´s existence cannot be explained intellectually, but they also know, that it cannot be excluded by intellectual exercises, such as Christian´s entry.
Their problem is sexuality. I don´t get it. Maybe they are some kind of gay who don´t dare face their true attraction. Or, besides straights and gay, there is a third category - without any kind of sexuality whatever (I think that the press campaign about paedophile priests was way out of proportions: disgusting).

 

All protestant priests, as far as I'm aware, are able to marry.
Heck, the Church of England allows female vicars, which caused huge upset. :roll:

 

Well, fact is, I haven't met any.

Of course, to me it sounds entirely logical that all reasonable people will shy away from religion and priesthood, thinking of it the way I do myself...

 

Indeed, it does sound like theoretical exercises: I think it is logical, so it must be so. No matter what whoever says.

Imo you overestimate science, too. Science can´t disprove creator. It can´t even disprove we come from a single pair of people. Science is great for studying nature, but saying that science (anthropology) proved that humans created g_ds doesn´t have any meaning. It´s no more than a postulate.
Very convincing and, to tell you privately, I think the same. But I deny, it´s scientific.