London Explosions

And I should point out here that England has been under terrorist attack from (nominally) Christian Irishmen for quite some time. fanatic fundamentalists are not just Muslims.

 

the difference is that the ira etc were politicaly motivated, religion had nothing to do with it.

the ira were not indiscrimate bombers at least they gave warnings and attacked political targets.

unfortunately the goal of the islamic extreemists is not attainable at any costs..so they bomb and threaten anybody or anything that dosnt conform to their beliefs.

 

Ricky, Castelot ... I'll urge you again to take a look at Ali Sina's website. It contains articles etc., many of them written by former muslims. Drop your PC* for a moment and read it with an open mind. You might learn something new.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

* that should be your political correctness, not your computer.

 

Um, and the Catholic / Protestant divide has nothing to do with the Irish Question then...

Oh, and busy shopping streets are not political targets...? The IRA have bombed a fair few of those in their time.
Although they have made some nicely 'targetted' attacks - like the Brighton hotel, or the mortar attack on Downing Street.


Skua - call me PC would you? :angry: That's fighting talk!

I know about some of the darker areas of Islam - several Muslims have enlightened me. But I also know that there are Muslims who tend to follow the other permitted path, if I can put it like that.

Personally, from what I know, I'm happy that I am a Christian
Oh, and that I am allowed to think for myself and do not have to swallow every theological theory that the Pope puts out. No offence to Catholics here, I'm thinking of the Crusades-era again. I could just as easily say 'Archbishop of Canterbury'. In fact, I will. Archbishop of Canterbury.
There, told you it was easy!

 

Yep, Skua's link is good..

Just like in the USA during Prohibition ( alcohol) Irans ban on alcohol is screwing up things.

A friend told me of his friend, who would drink a glass of wine with dinner at a nice restaunt.

People now stay home, liquor is a prestige item.

So people when people get a chance, they stock up.

Soooo, then, they have all this booze...

People start sitting at home boozing it up.

They end up closeted alcoholics...

Then, they can't get the real thing..

You can guess what they end up drinking.

Anyway, I hear the place parties like Hollywood or Amsterdam....

They are going wild behind closed doors, however the work and professional restrictions on women are creating lots of prostitutes.


The law of unintended consequences takes over, the booze peddlers are ending up with Chicago style 1930's empires..

The youth hate the mullahs, they aren't stupid.

 

As others have already offered, this American grieves for the lives lost in a cowardly attack on innocents in London.
We stand proudly with our British brothers and sisters...

Tim--USA

 

As far as I know, Islam is no more a fascist ideology than any other montheist religion except that it is younger. The fundamental problem of these religions lies therein that they reject the existence of other gods than their own, to an extent that they are willing to deny the right to live to those who disagree with them on that. All monotheist religions have had their movements or eras of extremism and bloodthirsty rage. None, however, seem to show any resemblance whatsoever to the books on which the religions are based...

It is wrong to judge Islam by the values those who yell loudest that they are part of it, just like with everything else.

Grieg: I wasn't saying poverty was the cause of terrorism, I was saying that a young generation of uneducated and poor people may be more drawn to terrorist organizations because they are being told or believe that it is their only way out of a miserable and seemingly pointless existence. Notice all the other elements one can draw into this that have nothing to do with just "poverty".
And your using "Leftist" as an argument against a statement... Well, never mind. As you would say, it's not worth a reply.

 

First and foremost, my condolences go out to all the british people, the victims, and the families of the victims of this horrendous and cowardly act of terrorism in London.

These terrorists have to be hunted and destroyed like the criminals that they are. But unfortunatly, a long history of war and struggle hasnt taught us alot as I can see from this thread. I understand the anger as I feel it myself. But ... Ah forget about it, its not worth it, I dont feel like repeating the same thing all my life.

Again, I express my condolences to all the victims and their close ones.

 

You mean like the Australian tourists in Roermand, the boys in Warrington, the oil storage in the north east, the numerous attacks on the London financial areas, tower Bridge, the M6, etc.

 

Outrageous atrocities has been carried out in the name of most religions, true, and in spite of what their holy scriptures say. It is, however, exactly the other way around with Islam. The terrorists who has carried out all these attacks, 9/11, Madrid, London etc., are following the Qur'an. The 'moderate' muslims are not.

Well, I'm judging Islam by it's scriptures, the teachings of their leaders, it's history and the way it works.

I'm a bit curios though. You have critisized religion in general and Christianity many times on this forum. And I have nothing against that. But why are you defending Islam. What is it about Islam that is so different from other religions that it makes you run to its defence ?

 

Skua, your ignorance is remarkable.

Sorry man, but your WAYYYYYYYYYYYY off.

Its hilarious, its like me saying pinguins can fly. Please people, at least dont talk about something you havent read all your life. Its hilarious how you can make such accustaions if you dont even know how to speak arabic. I suggest you learn it and understand it before you go read some translated nonsense that doesnt even make sense. Hey, ive done a great job. I speak 4 languages perfectly. And you im sure can speak more. If your going to make unfounded accusations of which your proof comes from some translated bullshit, that people twist the words how they want. How about you learn arabic and then we can have a conversation in equal terms? If not then I suggest you go speak to the PEOPLE that really know what Islam is about.

Did you know that this Italian once told me that under the bible, he was supposed to be pope. You think i believed him? :roll:

People WAKE UP!!! Not every damn thing you hear is true. If the koran is really what you claim it is, then by god the years ive spent reading it were all worthless. Let me put it this way, if you truly want to know the meaning of something, go to the source.

Offcourse what ive just said will be twisted around and island hopped as people really just want to believe what they want to believe.

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

Please be so kind as to translate the worst of these 'quotes' correctly.


http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm


from Skua's link

 

Desertwolf ...

I've read the Qur'an. Not in Arabic, I must admit, but in English and Norwegian. True, I don't know Arabic, but why is every translated version of the Qur'an corrupted ?

This is unfortunately the usual reply one gets from a muslim when questioning or critisizing the Qur'an. "You don't know arabic, so you can't understand it". The most overwhelming impression I get is unfortunately that you for some reason wont enter a discussion with me or respond to my 'hilarious accusations' under any circumstanse, whether I speak Arabic or not.

Believe it or not, I would like to have a rational discussion with about Islam. But that is never going to happen as long as you refuse to speak to me. Anf how do you expect my to change my mind about anything if all you can tell me is that I'm being ignorant and hilarious ?

 

I haven't read the whole link I have to admit, but what I have read doesn't seem too shocking to me, doesn't Christianity similarly promise an eternity being tortured in hell for none-believers, unrepentant sinners and heretics?

This website to me clearly has a huge agenda, if it was a historical website that portrayed any given nation in such a highly prejudicial light we would dismiss it as being highly biased.

I agree with Roel's posts completely, to draw the parallels with the Irish Troubles, it was the underprivelleged, unemployed and generally hopeless feeling young men that resurrected the IRA in the 1960s and 70s.

I fear in Britain we are beginning to see the first stages of an anti-Moslem backlash, I was dismayed to hear a work colleague today saying that "What we should do is round 'em all up, stick 'em in a camp and send 'em all back where they came from.", apparently some Mosques have been attacked already.

Desertwolf, thank you for your posts, your sentiment is appreciated.

For the others who have posted, thank you too.

This time last year I was working in London, my route to work took me through the underground on two of the lines that were bombed at about the time the bombs went off. If I hadn't changed jobs I still would have been using that route.

 

Easy to answer Stonewall, those quotes cant be translated as they do not exist in the Koran.

Skua, please make the distinction that I havent criticized YOU but I have criticized your accusations. Id love to have a conversation with you about this. I never said I didnt want to talk about this with you.


Beleive me everybbody, I hate those terrorists more than anybody. I am anguisged to find despicable creatures commiting atrocities in the name of a peaceful religion. Its just utterly wrong. You cannot believe how it greives me to see some very educated and intelligent people fall into the trap and believe that Al Qaida speaks in the name of Islam.

 

They are all there in the translations I have. Some of them are worded slightly different, but the meaning they give is pretty much the same.

 

Translations TAKEN from translations.

 

Very well, I'm not in a position to comment on that. But what do you say ? Do these quotes/verses exist in the Qur'an or not ? And if they do, what would be their correct translation ?

 

follow the links

Allah has destroyed many generations. 98


ie click on the "98"

maybe you should have followed the links that support the numbers


http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/q ... ex.html#18

22-45 How many a township have We destroyed while it was sinful, so that it lieth (to this day) in ruins, and (how many) a deserted well and lofty tower!

22-15 Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself. Then let him see whether his strategy dispelleth that whereat he rageth!.
anyway, thiey seem to be the same

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/022.asp


22:45 How many populations have We destroyed, which were given to wrong-doing? They tumbled down on their roofs. And how many wells are lying idle and neglected, and castles lofty and well-built?

22:15 If any think that Allah will not help him (His Apostle) in this world and the Hereafter, let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and cut (himself) off: then let him see whether his plan will remove that which enrages (him)!



Funny, manying seemingly Islamic religious web pages seem to translate as presented by Skuas link and thier subsequent links..


22:16 Thus have We sent down Clear Signs; and verily Allah doth guide whom He will!

2216 Thus We reveal it as plain revelations, and verily Allah guideth whom He will.




Are you sure theu dont exist?

19 These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Disbelievers will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on their heads, their bellies and skin will be melted, they will be tormented with iron hooks, and when they try to escape they will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning.
20 Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;



22:19 These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.

22:20 With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.



Ahhh there more than a few Quoran wbsites around..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... ++Surah+22

The links referencing the actual quotes seem to parallel (comparable) to the Islamic web pages

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

 

(Please see next post)