Paris Riots

I agree with what you write. The problem with European politics today, however, is that multiculturalism is encouraged and cultivated. The idea that immigrants should give up their former loyalties and blend in with the culture of the host nation is condemned by the politically correct politicians and media.

You Americans might manage to rid yourself of multiculturalism, a few European nations might manage it as well. Poland is a good example, maybe Norway. But I don't have high hopes for some of the big nations of Europe, like Britain, German or France.

 

Well Singapore is a multi-cultural society,everyone is friends with everyone. I have a malay,indian and chinese neighbour.My classmates are Peranakan(Malay-mixed-chinese),Indian,Eurasian and of course,muslim.My form teacher is British. Maybe it's due to the fact that Singapore is a small nation,but multi-culturalism is possible,but you need an equally hard and of course,strict country to run the show,of which Singapore's ministers have been quoted by Times(i think) as ruling Singapore with an iron-fist and benevolent at the same time. We are a Parliamentary "democracy" modelled after westminster of course.

All is know is that,if Singapore were to have that kind of riot,within 24 hours the riot police would be there,and curfew for the affected area or the whole country. In 48 hours if it is not resolved,martial law and PERHAPS a state of emergency will be declared and the army called in to clear up the mess...

I have mentioned i studied Utopianism which sadly,included teaching you how to mould human nature and subdue them. And in my "professional" eye,my country is doing a great job and yet we do not feel oppressed at all.

What Chirac needs is a spine(hope i don't offend anyone)

 

the riots are starting to stop (less then 500 cars tonight.) so the french waited till this thing blowed over. well, it's a tactic but the price card is very huge. bet the taxes will rise in france

 

Is that just because tey are running out of cars to burn?

Multiculturalism...

In Britain we had pretty good integration, until fairly recently. Then of course Mr Blair began his "Hey, let's like, y'know, rejoice in our Multiculturalism" theme, and here we are, polarising.

 

Perhaps we should make a distinction between superficial multiculturalism and fundamental multiculturalism?

The first kind is often what people think of first when multiculturalism is mentioned. Skin colour, food culture etc. We have immigrants from Ghana or Sri Lanka here in Norway who have few problems blending in with ethnic Norwegians because the differences are only superficial.

The latter kind is the kind of multiculturalism I'm talking about, and which I believe is destructive. This is when groups subscribing to different fundamental values exists whitin the same soceity. They will inevitably polarise and clash sooner or later.

 

I still think we should just send in the army.But then there will be collateral damage...OH MAN AND THIER CONSCIENCE!

 

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I agree that problems of guest workers/immigrants have been dangerousely neglected(and still are to some extent).
But I do not see the situation as negatively as you describe it.

For european nations, the problem of large minorities is quite a new one, so we still have quite a lot to learn in that field.
However it is clear that there is a change of mentality among the people and politicians, and the "laissez-faire" policies concerning immigration/intefration are being changed.

In France, the banning of the islamic headfscarf from public places, the expelling of radical imams are first signs of this.

Tough the integration of muslims only works very slowly, it does work.
The birth rate among muslims in France has declined sharply in recent years, which shows that "western" habits are spreading among them.
Immigration too has declined and will decline much further in the years to come.
Thus the uncontrolled rise of the muslim population will end and we will be able to focalize on those who are here.

In a recent poll among muslims in France following results were observed:

- Only 20 % of young muslims go to mosque at all
- 81 % of them consider secularism a positive value
- 84 % of them say they have a positive view of christianity(Rest of french population 72%)
- 68 % say they would have nothing against their daugther marrying a non muslim.

As I already said most muslims in France are well integrated.
Anyhow, can someone be more french and more loyal to France than the tens of thousands muslims that died for France in both worls wars....


Once again, I do not say that there is no problem, but it surely isn't as "hopeless" as some describe it.
Surely it will take a lot of time and a lot of problems to remedy the situation, but, unless contrary is proven I remain confident in democracy and common sense.

 

Perhaps a democracy with a bit more of the common sense and a little less political correctness?

France is admittedly way ahead of Norway when it comes to dealing with the negative influx of multiculturalism, but then you have had a lot more trouble with it as well. And I have more faith in France than I have in Germany or Britain in this matter.

The headscarf ban was indeed a big step in the right direction ( for those of you who oppose the ban, please have a look at the Tunisian model for gender equality and rights for women ).

 

....would surely be of great help!

 

The city I lived in, Winnipeg (it's in Canada, for anyone who has never heard of Winter-peg), has IMO adopted multiculturlasim fairly well. A good percent of the city is non-white (if anyone has the actual figures, please let me know). Pakistanis, Indians, Phillipinos, Eastern Europeans, and Haitians form the majority of the ethnicities and very little is heard of racial dissent. I find Chinese food and perogies Canadian, Indian spice houses are Canadian, hell even a non-english speaking person working at the neighbourhood 7-11 is Canadian. The majority of people in the city find it this way. Very few actually point out racial/ethic separations. Ironically, the most racial dissent we ever get is from Native Americans, but I can see why.

Whether all of Canada is this way, I don't know. Quebec I wouldn't think so because not everyone likes learning French!

Castelot wrote:

One question, was this poll distributed to all Muslims (the hard way), or just ones that are established citizens (the easy way)?

Definently, and with any other culture. Time is the only thing that can blend cultures together. Or, as Skua mentioned, a totalitarian government. :-?

We as human beings are remarkable creatures. We have no need to evolve, only to adapt our surroundings. We can live in the tundra, jungles, deserts, whatever so from that alone I believe multiculturalism is possible and can work. If we can adapt so well to the outside world, why couldn't we adapt to ourselves?

 

From the presentation of the organisation Ni putes ni soumises

A different perspective on the riots and multiculuralism in general.

 

Thursday night, first impression : it's not easy to fall asleep when there are helicopters which don't stop to turn round over houses.