The Great Peloponnesian War

Recently I've become fascinated with Hellenic history, especially that of Athens. A few weeks ago my history professor explained the fundamentals of the war that came to be called the Great Peloponnesian War (431-404BC), and I found it really interesting, and heavily ironic. I bought a book written a few years after the war by an exiled Athenian general, Thucydides, that is an excellent read for anyone interested in the subject.

Anyways, I found the causes of the Peloponnesian War quite similar to some of the indirect causes of World War I; namely the alliance system. The Peloponnesian War's two main players were Athens and Sparta, with the rest of the Greek city/states alligning with those two in one extreme or another. Even though Athens and Sparta were the big-dogs in the war, it was not them at all that escalated it. That credit goes to Corcyra, a neutral unimportant colony on the Adriatic, and Corinth, the mother city of Corcyra and favored ally of Sparta. In fact, the predonderant indirect cause for war could be further narrowed down to the Corcyran colony of Epidamnus.

Epidamnus was a colony of Corcyra, but had, after the Greek/Persian wars, prospered and became independent. She had a problem with the native peoples, the Taulantians, who began to attack and weaken her power. A revolution by a group of democrats kicked out the aristocratic party that was at the time ruling Epidamnus. The aristocrats joined forces with the Taulantians and began mounting piratical attacks on the democratic party in Epidamnus. The democrats sent messengers to their mother city, Corcyra, for help, but she turned them away. They then tried Corinth, seeing as Corinth was the mother colony of Corcyra, and therefore she had a right and the responsibility of assisting Epidamnus. Corinth decided to aid Epidamnus for that very reason, and for the fact that Corinth had an extreme hatred for Corcyra, as she paid no respects to Corinth like the other Corinthian colonies did, and saw this as a chance to humiliate Corcyra. Corinth sent a fleet to assist Epidamnus, but when Corcyra heard of this, she was infuriated and sent her own fleet (some sources say the second largest in Greece) to intercept the Corinthians and lay siege to Epidamnus (I think Corcyra was tired of keeping the exiled aristocrats in Corcyra, so she decided to put them back in power). Corinth learned of this move and ordered her fleet not to give way to the Corcyraean fleet. When the fleets met, the Corcyraeans pleaded with Corinth not to start a war, as it would only pull in other powers from around the Hellenas. The Corinthians would not listen, so as an ancient application of preemption, the Corcyraean fleet attacked. The Corinthians lost the battle, and were naturally furious over humiliation served to them by one of their own colonies. Furthermore, Corcyra took the city of Epidamnus. Corinth turned home, as did Corcyra, but each left a large contingent of ships and soldiers in their own version of the Sitzkreig. There was fighting between the two, but it was short of all out war. Corinth realized she would need a more powerful fleet if she was to defeat the Corcyraeans in future engagements. This greatly worried the Corcyaeans, who then turned to Athens for help. Athens decided to help because she saw Corcyra was in the right and that the Corinthian move was wrong. This is at least what was officially recorded. Athens greatest motivation for allying with Corcyra probably came from the fact that the loss of the Corcyraean fleet to the Corinth/Sparta camp would threaten Athenian interests. Athens sent a small fleet of around 10 ships to bolster the Corcyraean fleet, but they were under strict orders of self-defense only. Well, not long after, the Corintian fleet was sent out to destroy the Corcyraean navy. The battle seemed to be going in Corinth's favor, but when the Athenian fleet, who had been watching the battle idlely by, entered the fray, the fight turned against Corinth as her navy was no match for the combined strength and experience of the Athenian and Corcyraean fleets. Once again, Corinth lost, but this time she appealed to Sparta for help. Corinthian ambassadors were sent to Sparta and cried out against Athen's part in the conflict, and used it, as well as other Athenian moves (such as inciting a revolt in a Corinthian colony), to persuade Sparta that the only way to exist peacefully was by defeating Athens in war.

And that is, more or less, the immediate cause for the Peloponnesian war. Other causes include the imperalist and expansionistic moves by Athens in the years between the Persian wars and the current war. Ideologically differences between Sparta and Athens also contributed to the war's happening, as did the ever present paranoia in Spartan society.

Ok, I have a what-if question that I have not been able to get answered by anyone I ask:

The Athenian strategy at the beginning of the war was to let the Spartans do as they will to the land of Attica while the Athenian army sits behind the walls surrounding Athens and Pireaus, and let the Athenian fleet have free reign to harass the Peloponnesian peninsula. This worked for several years, but when a plague hit Athens and killed many people including the Athenian leader Pericles, a more aggressive plan was developed that ultimately led to the fall of Athens. What I question is the effectiveness of Pericles defensive, stand behind the walls, plan. Could this have, if the plague had never happend and Pericles survived, tired the Spartans out enough to call for the end of the war?

I know little about Spartan mentality, but I know they could not keep their soldiers away for long periods of time in fear that the helots would revolt.

That's enought writing for now, as you all can probably tell, I'm really bored.

 

For the Spartan mentality the quote "Come back with your shield or upon it" Should explain what they thought.

 

Nah, that was just their wives nagging them.

 

:lol: the wives and mothers were sure strict on that rule (heard of a case where a soldier was told to leave the battle to tell of the defeat and his mother threw a tile at him which killed him because he ran from the battle and didnt die)

 

the spartiats were dorians , the athenians ionians .
luxuries were totally forbiden , they had no art or science ,only war

you could not become a spartiat , only to be born one .
their education from 6 years on was of the S.A.S. level
they were underfed to encourage them to steal their food ( stealth
training )
on becoming a young adult their first duty for one year was the targetted
killing of any helot (country slaves ) who gave sign of having a bit of
spirit .
The spartiats lived in mess with their others company soldiers , they went
home only to shag their (shaved ) wives and make spartiates babies ,
as they were very homos , the birthrate had problem keeping up with the
attrition , during the war a big group of spartiats got stuck on an island
after a while sparta offered peace to get their men back
Athens then when to attack sicily not quite realising the size of the island
the spartiats under the peace terms could not send troops to help
the syracusians and send only one man , a general .
it made the difference and the power of athens was humbled .

the Athens / spata was often used as an analogy during the cold war
for the U.S.A. / U.R.S.S

 

The Classical age was a time of great development in the warfare of Ancient Greece. Gradually, the city states moved away from the strictly-hoplite warfare they had fought for centuries and started employing mercenaries alongside their citizens. Aditionally, siegecraft were developed and Greek armies became more and more proficient at assaulting walled cities. Therefore if the Peoloponnesian war had lasted much longer, Pericles' Long Walls would probably have fallen to the enemy by the introduction of new weaponry.

On the other hand the Spartans would have very little to do with this as their army was completely old-fashioned and consisted entirely of the Spartiates. Their reputation and training led to arrogance on their side; they believed they did not need any light troops or cavalry and failed to grasp fleet tactics the Athenians had mastered over the past centuries. They would play a role of significance only in field battles, where the small number of their hoplites (never more than 5,000) would work against them. Besides, in various battles during this war the heavy hoplite formations were disrupted and destroyed by light troops without them even engaging in hand-to-hand combat. The most significant resource the Spartans could bring into this war was professionalism and generalship, something the amateur citizen generals of other city states decidedly lacked.

 

Ultimately, the Athenian fleet could have cut off enough incoming food supply etc that Sparta would need to give up. But that could have taken rather longer than Athens had.

 

you are right 100% but 180 degree out

this is exactly what happenned .. but it was the spartiats who got wise
they build a fleet , learnd to sail and destroyed the athenian fleet at the
battle of goat river .no food for athens and the spartiats were still
controlling the land .
they set up a reactionary governement of nobles , by , by democracy
the frugal spartiats turned out to be pigs for corruption as soon as they
were in control of rich land and it undermined their strengh .
they got whacked by an other set of cities .

the end

 

i saw a movie back in the sixties that told of 300 spartan hoplites stopping a zillion iranians from invadeing greece.is this storie true,and how was it possible?i heard the spartans were tuff but cmon....

 

all true , battle of the hot springs , thermopilae

a persian army estimated at 500.000 men was moving along the coast
toward athens ,it was round two and this time athens would suffer
athens call all the greecs for help , including their old enemy sparta
sparta didn't mind fighting but though it would be fun to se athens crushed
one of sparta king (they had a set of two ) sayd than it was mean and he
would take his personnal guard and make a fight at a forced passage for
the persians , a narrow gorge .
things got a bit sticky and they got turned , the king made
a last stand to allow the rest of the greeks to run for it .
They gave it their best , and the persians were very impressed

on the cliff of the pass there is a n inscription in ancient greek
traveller, go to sparta and tell her than we died obeing her laws

a few weeks later the athenians outnumbered four to one crushed the
persians navy at salminea
a few months later the greeks with the full spartan army destroyed the
persians

 

That movie is filled with inaccuracies, and your post even more so I'm afraid.

In 480 BC the Persians (no such thing as Iran back then) invaded Greece with an army of which the numbers are estimated anywhere between 100,000 and 3,000,000, the former being far more likely for logistical reasons. There was only one place along its path to Athens where this army could be stopped by the outnumbered Greek forces, which was the pass at Thermopylae. To give the Athenian army and navy time to prepare for the eventual clash, the Spartan elite Hippeis (Knights) and some of their Greek allies rushed to the pass to guard it against the coming Persian horde.

The battle of Thermopylae was fought between the Persian army and more than 4000 Greeks, of which the core was formed by the 300 elite Spartan hoplites. They were able to hold off the Persians' relentless attacks because the terrain forced the enemy onto the spearpoints of their tight phalanx formation; however, learning of a mountain path leading around the pass itself, the Persian emperor sent a large contingent into the Spartan rear and the 300 Hippeis died to the last man after being surrounded. This battle, though costly, did not stop the Persians at all; their army was finally beaten at Plataea a year later.

All this happened some fifty years before the Peloponnesian War.

 

I think I have seen that film - it is the one where at one point they are attacked with chariots, and they lie down underneith their shields and allow the chariots to run over the top of them?

If it is - then the actual pitched battle sequences are about as accurate as those in 'Gladiator'

Still, it was a fun film, and the basic facts were correct.

 

I believe so, yeah. Even though the chariots of the age never engaged infantry head-on; the horses wouldn't dare charge spearpoints like that.

It's also the movie in which a Spartan volunteer group crosses a body of water in full Hopla gear (the shield alone weighed 6-8 kilograms), and the one in which the hoplites form up in single-rank lines...

 

Like I said, the battle scenes are as realistic as those in Gladiator...

 

It's currently being remade - but since this movie is based on a comic book I doubt there's going to be much for us history nuts to like.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/

Damn it, why can't they just do something right for a change! It's not like the facts are any less awe-inspiring!

 

As far as I know, Sparta's agricultural needs were filled by the work done by the helots. Athens, on the other hand, was very vunerable to her food supplies being cut off, since Sparta could lay waste to Attica and could theoretically cut off the Athen's wheat supply from the Black Sea and Egypt.

The 300 Spartans were not the only Greek soldiers to die to the last man at Thermopylae; some 700 Thespians fought along side the Spartans until the bitter end.

I always loved the quote from one of the Spartan commanders at Thermopylae (Leonidas maybe?):

The Persians told the Greeks that their archers would block out the sun with arrows. The Spartan commander replied with "All the better, for we shall fight in the shade!" (not verbatim ).

 

Not Leonidas. Dienekes, who was the bravest of all soldiers present, according to Herodotos.

I always liked the quote from the Greek commander at the battle of Salamis: "You want Greece? Come and claim it!"

 

According to Russell not all Spartans died, there were 2 almost blind because of desease. One of them decided to fight (with a little help of Helot) and died, the second returned to Sparta. He was called a coward but he managed to release this blame fighting and being killed in a next battle with Pers

 

When one knows the terrain and has warror such as the Spartans....They were in a narrow valley so only a few persian could pass at a time....and they were cut down (remember. the persian had farily inferior armour- padded jackets)

Pop quiz! who wrote a book on the Peloponisian Wars but never finished (I hope I'm thinking of the right war....)

Hehehe. History class has suddenly become very, very interestting (was interesting before, but now....)

 

I'm not sure if the Spartans were still wearing bronze cuirasses or if they had already switched to leather or linen by 480 BC. Note that in the course of the 5th and 4th centuries the Greeks swapped to armour that was lighter and less protective rather than heavier and 'better'. Armour was largely irrelevant anyway since even a cut to the arm or leg would almost invariably be lethal at the time.