Building your army : Armoured Force 1939

Ok guys

Hypothetical scenario, you are a small regional power and
it is 1939. What armoured force would you build for your army...
hypothetically...keep your army tight and your budget down.

Just a hypothtical..

Kym

 

In 1939?

tough call.

Ok, none of the British light or cruiser tanks.
It would be tempting to pick the Matilda II, but frankly there is no room for development.

French tanks - were mostly very good... except for the 1-man turrets and (in most cases) the lack of range.

German tanks - well, the Pz III and Pz IV were not stellar in 1939. Their bonus point is that they were capable of much upgrading. I would definately use their half-tracks!

American tanks. In 1939, I think I'll pass.

Russian tanks, the BT-7 was fast, with a good gun, but weak armour.

Italian tanks. See American tanks.

Japanese tanks. see Italian tanks.

Also worth considering are the Skoda 38, and the Polish 7TP, both good tanks.


It depends - If I wanted a good army right now, without a care for the future, I'd pick mostly French tanks (Souma, maybe a few Char B's) and make a few improvements.

If I wanted a force that I could upgrade over time, I'd pick the Pz.IV

My light tank would be the 7TP.
I would use the German personnel-carrying half-tracks.
I'm tempted to have a few Universal carriers too, as gun-towers, general cargo-carriers, etc.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... r_II_tanks

some infor for anyone contemplatign this, as this is a really good topic. Does not have Panzer IV and I do not know the accuracy of the information

 

Well, the Pz.IV was strictly an infantry-support tank at the time, the Pz.III was the intended tank for fighting other tanks.

 

Hi.

Armoured vehicles of my army in 1939:

Light recon: german SdKfz 221, 222 and 223
heavy recon: japanese type 97 tankette Te-Ke
light tank: japanese type 95 light tank Ha-Go
MBT: soviet BT-7
infantry support tank: japanese type 97 medium tank Chi-Ha
heavy tank: none

Yours

tom!

 

Actually you can fit the KV-1 in there as there were about 141 model 1939 built. I beleive that around 330 KV-2 tanks were built before the next KV-2 model production started. I beleive production of KV-2 ended shortly after the switcht to the next KV-2 model.

 

Hi.

To me the KV-II is more a spg than a tank.

I don´t think a heavy tank is necessary in a 1939 armored force. The problems of fielding another tank type are not worth the low value of the late 30th heavy tank types.

The KV-I wasn´t realy combat-ready until 1940 so I wouldn´t choose him in 1939...

Yours

tom!

 

I would still choose it as it is great for the effect on the morale of your troops and the morale of the enemy troops.

 

Shopping at Stalinmart...i would get some A32's or T32's and...
On the way back home pass by to get some good radio equipment and headsets...

 

For me.. My nation, being neutral, good relations with all 'powers' possibly with the exception of the Soviet Union.

Light Tanks
Panzer IIc (as a stop gap, but 'cavalry' type tank)
LT-35 (as a principle battle tank, preferably the LT-38)
7TP ( a training tank which would later be re-fited and bought up to T26s spec as such)

Medium
Somua S35 ( I would hope to have a few of these in numbers to use as a MBT)
Panzer IVD ( support tank- upgradable)

Heavy Tank
KV-1 (procurement however would be impossible I would imagine)

Misc AFVs
Sdkfz 222 (Light recon armoured car)
AMD 178 ( another good recon armoured car)
Sdkfz 251 ( APC would love to have a mechanised army)
Birch Gun ( SPG instills the concept of mobile warfare at an early stage)


Ultimately realistic yet optimistic...

 

Panzer Mk IV all the way..

rip the top off for a SP AFV & mount a 105..


simple logistics..

 

The ones available in 1939 had frightfully thin armour though, and they were intended for infantry support only. Obviously the design had a lot of potential for upgrades, but that's not why it was built; it was expected to have all it needed to have.

 

like I said, rip the top off and bolt on a 105, the long barreled 75 would have been an obvious up grade also, later models used the original suspension etc..

apply armor panels later if needed..like the Jumbo Sherman..

fairly straight forward really

 

In hindsight, definitely. My point was that in those days, would you have reckoned you needed this sort of thing? Your opponents wouldn't have much more armour than you did, except for the occasional Matilda II or KV-1.

Also as far as I know the long-barelled 75mm wasn't produced in Germany until 1942. I could be wrong there.

 

As regards the KV-2, during November 1939 - January 1940 in the Soviet-Finnish battle-front was test the 6 heavy tanks: KV-0 and KV-3 (with 152mm guns), KV-Y-1 and KV-Y-2 (with 76,2 mm guns); SMK and T-100 tanks. The KV-0 most of all participate in the battles - 15 battles. The quantity of the direct hit (from 37-47mm guns) until 22.

The KV-2 wasn't tank, it's а spg, true. The ordinary tanks tactical scheme it did not decision.

 

Recon: SdKfz 231(8 wheel)

Halftrack: SdKfz 251

light tanks: None, they are useless in battle.

MBT: Pz.III with a french 47mm gun
The Pz.III is the best choice because it has a three man turret, radio, can be upgraded and the chassis can be used for various SP-guns(AA,AT,Artillery). The french 47mm gun would be my choice, because it was the best AT-gun available at the time and it saves some money, if tanks use a gun, that is also used as a towed AT-gun. Purely based on hindsight I would prefer the Pz.IV, but that´s an unrealistic choice for 39.

 

It still had the requirments of a tank therefore it must be a tank.

 

What requirements of a tank?

The vehicle carried a gun that can't be considered a tank gun; it was meant to support infantry in the assault of heavily fortified enemy positions. Therefore it was really an SPG.

 

I reconsidered the matter and I´m tempted not to build an armoured force at all, because.

a) anything available sucks!
b) the good stuff isn´t available


British tanks:
The cruiser Mk.I was the only tank in production at that time. Even if HE-ammo is available for the 2-pdr, 14mm of armour is a joke and makes the tank a waste of money.

German tanks:
Pz.III and IV are fine, but even Germany had next to none by the time the war began, so I can´t get them.

Soviet tanks:
A BT-7 looks ok. Good, all-round gun, armour as weak as usual at that time, but are they for sale? And they just have a two man turret.

Japanese tanks:
Type 97 looks OK. Gun, armour, two man turret…looks very similar to a BT-7.

Czechoslovakian Tanks:
The LT-35 is unreliable and has a two man turret, armour and armament are ok.

French tanks:
The S-35 is rejected, because of the one-man turret, but the AMC 35 looks like the best I can get: 47mm gun, two man turret, 25mm of armour.


As you can see a tank with a 3-man turret, decent gun(37mm or better) and enough armour to survive a hit from a 37mm gun is not available. So I´m tempted not to invest in tanks at all, but rather sped my money on AT-guns -25mm is ok, 37mm is better, because it can fire HE and canister. Maybe I put some French or Czech 47mm guns on a tracked chassis to get a good SP AT-gun. 40mm Bofors guns are high on the “things to buy” list, because they are effective against planes and contemporary armour, so they are an ideal weapon given my financial restrictions. The Infantry will get AT-mines. Keeping in mind Germany –who else could be my enemy- uses a lot of light tanks AT-rifles and cal. 50 Browning macine guns(penetrates 25mm at 100m) are worth their money.