A lefty waffen SS ! the pride of german letters , the much esteemed gunter Grass ,nobel prize who , for years , exposed the selective memories of modern germany , has ,in its recent autobiography , revealed the not insignificant fact than he had from 1944 served his country in the 10th ( frundsberg ?) waffen SS panzer division. one can only agree that this fact would have led to his body of work to be misunderstood ! as a keen fan of his works , I personnaly rejoice in the new depth of introspection this could lead to , maybe a major work ! There is nothing like honesty , :smok: .
honesty Honesty? Could be publicity, he does have a new book coming out next month! Called 'Peeling the Onion', the only bad publicity is NO publicity. As he is only 78 years old now he must have been a very young SS tank gunner?
Re: honesty 16 roughly, practically an old man already by German call-up standards in the desperate last phases of the war.
honesty 'Google' tells me he was born in 1927 and he did join the army at the age of 16 in 44. , wounded and captured by the americans in 45.
I wonder about , the black hats / white hats things :-? there IS such a thing as morality ,but it seems to me than it is easier and more honest to shoot somebody for doing wrong than to judge them since if we had been them we would have done the same :roll: anyway by late 44 the waffen SS personnel was pretty far from the standard of the bad todz graduating school . .
The famous German writer and Nobel Prize laureat Gunther Grass (*1928 Danzig/Gdansk) confessed in an exclusive interview with the German newspaper FAZ that he was in the Waffen-SS. He served as a tank gunner in the 10th SS-Panzer-Division 'Frundsberg'. This is one of the topics of his new autobiographic book, which will come out in september this year. Previously Grass always testified that he was 'only' a Flakhelfer (AA-gunner) during the war. Now he admits that he was drafted into the Waffen-SS in september 1944 after volunteering for military service. During this stage of the war many young Germans were simply drafted into the Waffen-SS and the number of volunteers made up only a small portion of the total number. He was never 'tattooed' and entered unscathed into American captivity, unlike many of his divisional comrades. This confession shocked Germany last week, because the leftist Grass was commonly seen as the 'conscious' of post-war Germany, who often felt the urge to warn against rising German pattriotism. Grass confession in FAZ: http://www.faz.net/s/Rub7FC5BF30C45B402 ... ezial.html Commentary on the Grass confession:http://www.faz.net/s/RubF7538E273FAA4006925CC36BB8AFE338/Doc~EF21683E58DB848768F19D55D5FEAEDD6~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html
There are some irregularities in Grass' confession. First, he was called up in September 1944 and according to his own account he was only despatched in Dresden in February 1945. This means he only served one or two months in 'Frundsberg'. I always under the impression that men were quickly send to the front after minimal training in this stage of the war. Frundsberg was pulled out for rest and refit in November 1944. After that it was briefly deployed in the Alsace in January 1945. In February 1945 it was in action in Pommerania. It was only located in Dresden as reserve in March 1945. Secondly, he did not know whether he was drafted for the SS or for the Wehrmacht in September 1944. It is highly unlikely, because you normally had to report at the office of the barracks and the Waffen-SS had its own training grounds. It seems that he tries to hide that he was enthousiastic to be called up - he already was eager to enter service in the navy at the age of 15 - and saw no shame of serving in the SS. I think this feeling represents a broad sentiment among German youth in 1944, because nazi-ideology teached that military service was honorary service, besides the homeland was under direct threat.
honesty I'll go along with 'Steiner' on this, I have been doubtful of the claims from the start, I just have a feeling that this is to do with the new book publication of next month. I do not believe that even the German army at the 1944 stage of the war would do such, as I see it, minimal tank crew training.
The tankcrews of the Panzer Brigades in september 1944 had only a few weeks of training. Even the tankcrews of 'elite' units like the LAH SS-Panzerdivision had only two months of training before being engaged in the Ardennes offensive in december 1944. In other words: even if Grass was a tanker, it is very unlikely that he received more than half year of training before being committed. I think that Grass has been chocked by the response of his confession and tries to diminish his role by shortening his 'membership'. I even read that he claimed to have not killed anybody, which is very unlikely because his (sub)unit was always in the heat of the fight.
honesty It's the tank crew training schedule I can't understand, I know nothing about German army training so won't make hard and fast comments, but I don't believe you were thrown into tank crew training without going through initial army training first, at least a few weeks in a training regiment to learn military discipline. Did the Germans 'call up' at 16 years old as standard procedure? Does any one have facts on this question?
I know that most 'recruits' of late 1944 were already 'trained' in the paramilitary Hitlerjugend and Reichs Arbeitsdienst (RAD), just like Grass. They only needed to be trained in a specific profession. Nevertheless, infantry training in september 1944 was done right behind the frontline with at most a few weeks training. I don't know the exact tank training schedules, but accounts on the German Lorraine campaign in september 1944 are mentioning 16/17-year old tankcrews with only nominal training. I can't imagine that the German tankcrew had more than two months training in Fall 1944, because they desperately were short of crews to make up the losses of the summer and preparing for the Ardennes counteroffensive.
. . . I go with steiner too , in one of the articles the position was given as gun loader , wich is pretty much monkey work , it would explain mr Grass denial than he had'nt shot at anybody ,it would have been the gunner job , a much more critical position , requiring a fair bit more training and practice! i'ts likely than mr grass was enthusiastic about playing soldier , what 17 year old hitlerjungen would'nt be !? . . . .
This document, which was drafted during his POW-period, is a testimony of mr Grass concerning his involvement in the German army. It proves my point that he was assigned to "Frundsberg" (10th of November 1944) two months after he was drafted for the army (September 1944). This means that he was assigned during the final preparations for the Ardennes offensive (november 1944) and he certainly has been deployed since operation 'Nordwind' in the Alsace in january 1945. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:G%C3% ... record.jpg
I found some more information about the whereabouts of the specific unit in which Grass served: 10th SS Panzerjaeger Abteilung (Tankhunter Battalion) "Based on the diary of LXXXI. A.K. I was able to track the engagements of SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 from 11.09.44 till 21.09.44. During the entire time the battalion was only made of St., 1./ and 2./ SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 with 21 Jg.Pz. IV. The battalion was raised between June and early September in Mielau." It is interesting to know that it was raised before september 1944 and engaged during september and oktober 1944. This battalion was probably refitted in november 1944, when all elements of the 10th SS Panzerdivision were pulled out for refit in preparation for the Ardennes offensive. The 10th SS was not deployed in the Ardennes by the way.
Re: honesty There was a headline on the BBC news website this morning that claimed intrest in the guy's book had skyrocketed since the admission. It is hard not to just say 'publicity stunt'
