Alexander movie

Have you seen Oliver Stone's Alexander? Personaly i think it was widely inaccurate as far as the battles and the historical events are concerned.
Need your opinion.

 

Crap

FNG

 

The depiction of the battle of Gaugamela was superb, in fact unparalelled in movie history. Other than that, the movie was quite all right if you ask me, though as always Oliver Stone does not feel much obligation to the facts.

 

The movie was 3 hours long and shows almost nothing about Alexander's campaign.Just Gaugamela( wrong phalanx, moves of the two armies are not accuratelly depicted in the field), Hydaspes( Fought in a complete fictional way-where's the river?)and some Babylon. The rest of it has many non accurate references ( Alexander's homosexuality ) while the more imporatant events are gone!.Complete disappointment :cry:

PS1: Right phalanx in picture

PS2: Could you please delete my previous reply? *(Submitted by mistake) Thanx

 

Was Alexander not inclinded towards men then?

btw - the phalanx in your picture looks just like te phalanxes in the film, or am I missing something?

 

In the movie the phalanx lacks the characteristic position of the spears which protected the phalangists from arrow fire-they weren't using their shields(they were quite smaller too) for that as this could break the formation.

Alexander was not inclined towards men. Ancient sources refer to it clearly. I'll try to find some.

 

Erm? Alexander was wholely and utterly bi sexual.

But in context so was a lot of Greece and Rome as their society was completly different to ours, as was their attitude to sexuality.

There is the story of Alexanders slave boy that fell into the nile to be gobbled up by crocs if I remember rightly.

FNG

 

:???: using their spears to protect them from arrows?

Now I am confused...

 

The ancient Greeks were using the word "kinaedos" (in pure greek "κίναιδος") to describe a homosexual person."Kinaedos" comes from the words "κινώ"+"Αιδώ" which means "move"(or "twist"-"shake" is more appropriate in this occasion)+"Aedos"(Aedos=decency, a major greek virtue). Thus, "kinaedos" is the person that is not decent.That makes clear the stance of the ancient Greeks against homosexuality. Satisfied?

 

This is true, actually. The men would stand so close together (each man had a space about two feet wide) that the ranks of spears behind them, when held at a 45-degree angle, would actually provide protection from arrows coming in from any angle but straight ahead. This is simply because you can't get an arrow all the way down that forest of pikes without hitting something.

Try throwing a ball in a straight line in the middle of a dense forest. It just can't be done.

However I do seem to remember it was like this in the film...

Oh, and McRis, I'd be very surprised if the ancient Greeks actually had a disapproving word for homosexuals since as far as I know (as a student of Ancient History) the Greeks and Macedonians of the time simply had no concept of homosexuality. Every man of any means was bisexual, as it was the social standard. It was much less accurate to see Patroklos as Achilles' cousin in the movie Troy; according to Homer he was in fact, and quite explicitly, his lover.

 

In ancient Greece the word you seek is "erastis"(εραστής) which is translated as "lover" in English.The concept of the word today has lost its initial meaning (strangely enough when that period is concerned) which was the man with love for anything that was intrested in.For example for his work,his friends,his family or his mentor and teacher.It doesn't contain sex( An other example is from the New Testament; "Love thy neighbour"). As a student of Ancient Histoty do you have the choice of courses like Ancient Greek & Latin? If yes learning the 1st would be very helpful so you can read the sources from the original text. If you like i can post sources that prove the opposite of what you're claiming. (providing and the original greek text to if you like)

 

It is not my own expertise I am using as a source here as it is sorely lacking - I can't read Ancient Greek and I don't know Latin either. I'm merely recounting what I have been told by my professors and what I have read in my handbooks. Both are widely acclaimed.

 

The homosexuality as a social standard in ancient Greece is a myth that i can see has yet to be collapsed.I don't deny that they weren't any bi-sexuals or homsexuals.But these were minorities out of the social standards and not considered citizens at all(an unbearable accusation by greek standards then) by losing all their political rights.
However, there is an interesting story about 2 very famous homosexuals(They are not known like that and i explain why now*).These 2 were Armodeios and Aristogeiton and were honoured for the murder of the Tyrrant of Athens (tyrrant then was like the roman dictator not nessecairy a vicious governor.) because he wanted a sexual affair with one of these two.So they killed him. The people of Athens transformed this crime of passion into a movement against tyrrany and exploited this chance to restore democracy roughly 30 years later(can't remeber correctly right now)

(*However Alexander is supposed to be the most famous homosexual Greek while he wasn't by any means)

 

What do you base this on, then? I'd like to see some of the sources you use to attack what I think is universally accepted Ancient History...

 

They can be found in the works of the ancient writters,lawmakers and philosophers. I've already provided some clues about it(More will come*). The thing that confuses me is where the suppporters of the opposite theory support their claims.

*May take some time to research my books

 

mcris...u mean to say the 300 spartans at thermopoly wernt a bunch a prancing nancy boys?...oh i hope your right....when i was told they were all sword swallowers it ruined the storie for me....

 

Spartans weren't necessarily into carnal relations with the men of their Syssitia... The Theban Sacred Band was gay though.

 

Where did you get that from?

 

I've heard it elsewhere, but it is confirmed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

And here:
http://members.aol.com/matrixwerx/glbth ... thebes.htm
And here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/sacred-band-of-thebes
And here, where the original Plutarch is translated:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/sacredband.html

Where did you get the idea that they were not, in fact, homosexual?

 

Have you read my 5th post? I state there that for the Greeks the words "lover" and "beloved" refer to the non carnal and non sexualy oriented love between two persons--most commonly between a young man and his teacher. This relationship focuses mostly in the education of the youths in order to grow up with values such as; love for their city,respect to the gods,love and respect towards family,honour,courage etc. The ideal citizen for the ancient Greeks was the one that with a good looking/healthy body and a sharp mind that grew up with the virtues mentioned before. This contained and love for his friends too as in the phalanx each man depended on the one next to him and so on. So, it was crucial to have a good fiend next to you that could sacrifise himself in order to save his colleagues. So, the words "lover" and "beloved" when refered to persons of the same sex(especially men) mean the strong bonds of friendship between 2 people. Something like blood brothers. All those references to homosexuality came up due to the misunderstanding of the original greek texts.