The Black Prince

Merlin:
If you would, please elaborate on why you would pick the Comet "hands-down" over the Black Prince.
Did it handle like that Mercedes you sent me photos of? Thanks for sharing in any case!

Ossian and Ebar:
Thank you for explaining that for me. I'm just an ignorant Yank.
(Big Smile.)

Tim

 

Of course, oil reserves have absolutely nothing to do with it

 

Black Prince/Comet

I have a soft spot for the Prince, BUT at the same time we worked on the first Cent which went on to greatness as we all knew it would.
Comet against Black Prince, BP was slow, cumbersome with what seemed like lack of turret space, you've read the trials report on gunnery.
Comet was fast,(we used to race them on the air-strip at Udine, Italy), it had been proved with 11th.Armd. against the Panzer with satisfactory results, the 77mm (Ok I know it was 76.something, but always refered to as a 77) was a brilliant gun as we found when we fired at WW2 hulks of all kinds at Shandur Range in Egypt. (Some of our AP went through turrets) Not quite as luxurious as the Merc Tim but we loved em.
Of course, you do realise that if Moses had turned left instead of right the Jews would have had the oil?

 

Actually hitting the turret was probably the most common place to hit. I read something on wikipedia about it and they gave a huge percentage which I dont beleive to be that high. But it would not be unlikely that a large percentage of tanks in WWII were destroyed from shots to the turret. The reasoning behind it is if it penetrated it could easily trigger a secondary reaction from the munitions stored in and around the turret.

 

Well we can always switch it right back and it sounds like you do want to have it switched back. Plus I am sure there wont be much comments on the joke .

Back on topic didnt the Black Price have a 17 pounder? I rarely see a place where it says the actual diameter of the barrel (ie. 76mm) instead for example the 17 pounder on the firefly I dont believe I have heard the main arament reffered top by the actual diameter which I think way 76mm.

 

Re: Black Prince

Yes, Black Prince had a 17pdr gun. It had almost become the 'standard' British tank gun in late 1945 - the Black Prince & Centurion were designed with it, and the Comet had a 'chopped about' version that fit into its smaller turret.

It doesn't really qualify...

 

Was there any performance different between the 17pdr and the 17pdr lite?

 

17pdr lite? Aka 77mm OQF Mk II?
According to 'British and American tanks of world war two' by Chamberlain and Ellis:
17pdr: armour penetration 120mm at 500 yards / 30° (APDS: 186mm)
77mm OQF Mk II: armour penetration 109mm at 500 yards / 30°

 

Hmm... that’s a fairly significant difference. Certainly if given the choice you want to be packing the full version of the 17pdr. I wonder whether the ammo was interchangeable?




On the subject of war stories the nastiest one I've heard was on a TV doc about British bomb disposal during WW2. One particular veteran told of a bomb that had hit a house but failed to go off. It smashed right through the house and came to rest in the cellar. Unfortunately on route it went through an occupied babies cot. As the veteran put it there wasn't much he could do other than get a pillowcase and gathering up the bits.

 

Ammo wasnt't just interchangeable; it was same. 17pdr had a bit higher MV and that is what gives it that 10% edge.

 

Well, I think the actual shell was the same, but the cartridge was bigger on the 17pdr compared to the 77mm, so you could not use ammo for one in the other.

 

I sit corrected

Chamberlain and Ellis say 'Calibre and shot were the same as for the 17pdr'.

 

black prince

have some photos on my webshots
dennis

http://news.webshots.com/album/548956918kRviGZ