The Russian winter played an extraordianary part in defeating the Germans... Most tanks and aircraft broke down, trenchcoats splintered, military boots fell apart and hundreds of thousands of soldiers froze in the subzero temperatures... with no winter equipment the Germans in Russia were almost unable to fight. Once the winter set in during Moscow '41 they were on the back foot for the rest of the war. So here's a question... Do you think the outcome of the war would have changed were it not for the Russian winter?
the winter of 41/42 was said to be a baddie....i think russian general winter has been their divne wind on at least three invasions...even the red army was out wintered by the finns who are even better at useing winter to their advantage...
The Finns mostly used terrain, not just weather - a perfect combination of factors beyond the control of the enemy. Russian weather, though, is severe enough to cripple an army on its own. It is true that the Russian winter of 1941-42 was extraordinarily severe and that it played a great part in weakening the German armies. But without the positive action of the Russians themselves, in the form of the 1941 counterattack, it would have been of little use, since even with that, the Germans were quite able to recover in time for another lightning offensive in the summer of 1942. Without the offensive, who knows how strong they might still have been. Winter can deplete an army, but it cannot defeat one. With Napoleon it was the same; winter itself did not do most of the killing, the Cossacks did.
the finns had warming huts,white camo gear,xc skis...the russkis did not....the finns made good use of the woodlands, surrounding red units and chopping them into kindling...
The Russians did have white camo suits and skis. The use of woodlands is what I was referring to - use of terrain rather than weather.
the first russian divisions had no white camo and the skis they were issued were suitable only for firewood according to the finns who captured many tons of skis ,amongst other goodies
While quite a few Russian units were issued with skis before the Winter War, most of them had not trained with them. They simply recieved a train-load of skis and instruction manules immediately prior to the attack. Plus the skis were the civilian kind, with the foot securely lashed to the ski at all points, rather than the military type where the ankle is left free and moveable.
Learning how to ski is fairly easy until you fall and hurt yourself like I did many years ago. Broke my leg in the process, i thought the rest of the hill was smooth but apprently where was a bumb and i hit it and I dont think I need to explain the rest.
You probably know this, but there is a big difference between downhill skiing and cross-country skiing. I only mention it because I only found out a few years back, so thought I'd make sure that everybody was aware...
I did both and I found that cross country is much more boring for me. But obviously my personal opinion is irrelevant. At least for me cross country is faster than walking in the snow.
jeeezuz ...the red army was issued with DOWNHILL SKIS....? no doubt ordered from the many posh ski resorts of stalinist russia....iirc russia is mostly flat and snow is not uncommon ,surely the red army had heard of xc skis.....
downhill skis have absolutely no military value unless the battlefeild is well equiped with chairlifts or gondollas....russia is made to order for xc skis....how could even the russians buggar this order so bad....
Did Winter defeat the Nazis in Russia ? Nazi arrogance rather than the Winter, I think. They knew about the dangers of the Russian Winter yet entered into the campaign completely under prepared for it because, in their arrogance, they were certain that they could obtain their major objectives before the Winter became a factor. Such arrogance was inherent in the Nazi psyche and was to prove their downfall on more than one occasion. Overconfidence was a major factor in the Russian attack on Finland too.
The Germans thought they could win the war in Russia before the Winter therefore neglected many things needed for winter combat such as proper clothing (more in terms on numbers), I heard they also lacked proper anti-freeze. Your statement on Nazi over confident is obviously true they did not expect a 5 year was against the Soviets not evan 1 year for that matter.
Wasn't there a campaign in germany to gather warm gear for the soldiers in russia and none made it or if it did i t was when winter had finished
