My Lai massacre

That is false, I'm afraid. If you look into it, you will find that there were several other countries involved - including the Turkish, Dutch, British, German, Canadian, and American air forces. The U.S air force probably stood for most of the bombing - being the largest and probably best.

I love generalizing statements, they add such an air of objectivety to a debate. :roll:

 

.

I present a small degree of retraction to my broadbrushed statements

but persist and sign as to the lack of professionnal integrity and competence of U.S. main news channels ,
the british stand head and shoulders above the cesspit though not without their own faults ,

- reuters is always the place to start
- deutshe welles is O.K. but boring and shallow ,
- china daily is pretty much what one would expect , but now getting stories about paris hilton video !!??
- novosti is a yawn , pravda as gone tabloid in a big way ,
- times of india is pretty much establishment
I gave up on japannese source
I also check on things like kavkaz center , the chechen guerilla site and such
the point is not if they tell lies, they do ,it's OK it can be re-calibrated
the point is do they says something different from the slop being served and what happen when its checked , sometimes big surprises

As for the bombing of serbia by the U.S. forces it was an unilateral decision of Prz clinton who had some grief at the time with his inability to keep his privates exactly that .

the same month came out an hilarious movie with dustin hoffman called " wag the dog"
all about a war being started in a balkan country, to save a U.S. president from a sex scandal !!
the timing was most unfortunate

reality being the imitator of fiction :smok:

.

 

Hollywood movies are of course a good source of objective and well informed opinions.
Speaking of opinions; your opinion of the various news sources is interesting but with no objective analysis provided is nothing but one personal opinion. Of course everyone has a right to their opinion it's just that one musn't confuse it with fact.
I don't find it particularly surprising that those with a non -US outlook would prefer non-US news sources, do you?

 

srebrenka...sp? .. at first , red cross and others had it at 10000 muslinm men and boys killed by serbs at first ...then it was 6 or 7k .. then 4000 .now im hearin from some pro serb sites like mabey 430 dead civillians ...this was one of the big straws that broke the camels back in nato.s eyes ...do we have some reliable numbers anyone .....tiso? i read that many dead srebrenka muslims turned up voteing in boshian elections later....then ...remember that photo on the cover of time magazine ...with the starved looking guys hanging pitiously on the wire...a serb run concentration camp ....i heard it said that the fence ...if you paned the camera left ...ends in a few feet ...that it was not a perimeter fence at all ...wtf..that the kla and croats did more killing ...would be kool to get some objective answers....

 

Woody, it is Srebrenica.
I realy don't know how many were killed there or after the capture. I do know that large mass graves were uncovered and that some poeple are still missing.

 

I ask you once again woody, what are your sources for these claims? I would be interested in reading about them, myself.

 

google up serbian war crimes ....and read.....many different sites ...some serbian ...but others nonpartisan...

 

To Grieg

"I don't find it particularly surprising that those with a non -US outlook would prefer non-US news sources, do you? "

That's a perceptive comment , news are a country's collective thinking

we'll slide quickly over the desert of 60+ channels ,
I was starving there , not being interested in saving my soul , the weather report in spanish or the shenanigans of hollywood

my partial apology was to differenciate the many news sources one can find from the U.S. with what can be called infotainment and
their news readers , wich are to information what shop dummies are to fashion

This dross is complemented by info mags whose only concern is to get "inside administration sources " and are in fact little more than government pets , desperate for white house accreditation , rolling on their back for a high powered tickle from "scoot" libby or some such flunky .
that's not information , that's valium for the masses

a good place to get basic info of the non-explosive kind is the BBC ,the independent ,and the financial times
the new york times is somewhat suspect for anything on the middle-east but Ok for the rest of the world ,
internal US politics are dicey , for balance I read usa today , the new-yorker , new republic , L.A. times , chicago tribune and the weekly standard
for pleasure , I read pat buchanan

all sources are in fact coded with their own views ,and are trying to con the reader , they also have pressures on them of all kind ,
for an interesting contrast try reading haaretz and al jazeera.....between the lines



.

 

Re: Majorwoody & Google

Majorwood wrote

I did and added in "indictments" to the search phrase.

http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/kar-ai000428e.htm (UN)
http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/mil-2ai011029e.htm(UN)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,2763,1383438,00.html (another view - British )
http://www.nesl.edu/center/balkan1.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17147 (for balance )
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS22097.pdf (report for Congress)
http://news.serbianunity.net/bydate/2002/September_20/14.html (perhaps a tad biased this one, but maybe a kernel of truth?)
http://www.eaglelink.com/law-review/w99/kosovo.htm (Excerpt of indictments by UN)
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports.html (Didn't trawl through this one -rather I skimmed it- but it looks interesting, though maybe a wee bit skewed to suite point of view?)

The search was "Serbian War crimes indictments"
I found that the type of search you do will skew the results you get. As you say you will find all sorts from the graphic and voyeuristic to the ones I found above.

One last one! http://www.crimesofwar.org/archive/archive-kosovo.html

 

thanks for the tip cholbert ,your point is well taken...futher study has me concludeing that while there is plenty of nastiness and guil;t to go arround for all the balkan states ...the serbs pretty much started it and did the lions share of the killing and ethnic mopping...still ..any one know thw number of actual bodies recovered at srebrenkia or why the dutch un troops apparently did not intervene in any way ...some have suggested the un troops actually aided the serbs in the rounding up of muslim men....any truth to this storie?

 

Still off topic.

I tend to agree with you on that one 'woody. I can't find anything definitive on Srebrinica but then I did a lazy search.

This site lools OK in terms of an unbiased view but I can';t vouch for the figures given - like all of the other sites they seem to be estimates and there is debate on that!

http://www.gendercide.org/case_srebrenica.html Quite scathing of the Dutch UN troops but I'm unsure if there is an agend hidden in that.

 

Here is an interview with some of the My Lai veterans.

Part one-four

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VN7E_RDYiA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRGTJMt5Zg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2H8MUBn ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MwwFsV8 ... ed&search=

Regards,
Che.

 

from AWF:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=121106

 

As i see,i was mentioned here more then few times,im sry coz i was not here to reply on time.About my english,it is not my Second launguage,it is my fourth language (Serbian,Macedonian,German,english) and i never learned it on scool,r some course,i learned it myself,and i use forums,internet to increese my skill in english,so my apologise on errors.

As the point who done moust crimes,on EX Yu wars,for me it is irelevent.Why? Coz all done crimes.Whell known exsample on western propaganda is "Markale Massacre" When Serbia got embargo after that incident.Mortar shell droped on market killed dousens of ppl.Not so long after,UN balistics discovered that shell is droped from muslim side?

Srebrenica,it was a slaugter indeed.Some evidences in Serbia pointed that number was a bit pumped up by muslims ,but that does not deny the fact that it exsist.But who know about Bratunac massacre,in Srebrenica county when Naser Oric troups sneeked out from Srebrenica,and killed several houndred Serb civilians in Bratunac vilage? Ovkors allmost nobody.I posted atleast few times links to sites for Serbian Civilians casulties,but u all seam to ignore that,and (especialy Grieg) ask for any documentation? So what i need to do,to copy/paste it ewery 3 posts away?

Now lets back for main reason why this offopic debate started.
-Serbian massacres,all participators was charged/convicted on international court of law.
-US massacres ,Nobody was convicted,charged,they who did get house detention (!!!!),and i will not mention that nobody was charged for command responsability ewer!

I know some western ppl,and i know that moust of ur guys r not bad (as u thinked that all communist was bad allso) but i realy think that majority of u belive in ur own propaganda.Latest proof is that majority of US support Iraq war,but that war is pointless,and im afraid loosed for US,and reason for start was sadam WDM,what was newer fouded.So,US army inteligent is eather werry stupid and ignorat so they picked up completly wrong information,either werry smart ,and do strong research about public opinion and excecute they master plan.

To close this post,there in no objectivity,justice by west,as u all like to brag,all is in interests,political,economical....Neither is by east,but we all know that.

 

No one here thinks western people are better than eastern people... We just think western governments are better because western governments do not condone genocide or ethnic cleansing, in fact we often try to prevent them...

Sure, you may say the west goes to war and kills innocent people, which they do, and that they are therefore no better than anybody else... But the difference between NATO in Kosovo, and Slobodan's war in Kosovo, is that NATO aimed to bring peace and stability, whereas Slobodan aimed to systematically kill all Croats Bosniaks and Muslims in all of Yugoslavia...
NATO wanted to stop the killing
Slobodan wanted to committ the killing

Ultimately NATO decided to invade, but what needs to be remembered is that none of that would have been necessary had Slobodan not comitted crimes against humanity in the first place...
Western governments do not declare war for no reason, like Slobodan did, and they do not try to kill entire races...

No country is perfect, but as far as Kosovo is concerned NATO was clearly far less beligerent than Slobodan was

 

Well, not since 1945 anyway!

 

Just count,US campains civilian victims,and Slobodan's Civilian victims.Count 3 mil in Vietnam,count 300k in Ex Yu on all sides.Count panama,Iraq,Afganistan,and rest of the US campaigns.

Point,who from US was charged r convicted? Why US blackmail 3-rd world countrys to put signature that US troops on their land got completly imunity to do what they want?

 

I feel like we have been here before. How many of those deaths were deaths of non-combatants caused by US forces? None of the conflicts you mention involved purely the US. Two of them are actions where the US and allies were assisting one country (or ethnic group) against the attacks of another.

Anybody who actually commited a war crime.

What is this agreement? I am ignorant of it. Well, ok, I'm just ignorant generally!

 

Yes Ricky we was here,but some of u guys r lazy to scroll back few post.
Who is covicted for mui lai massacre? And if u dont kill some1 with ur hand,but alot ppl die,coz u done something what r u? Actualy Milosevic never kill any1 in his life,and he was charged,so why none from US was charged by command responsibility when obviusly was reason for that? In best case u charge some private,then u find foult in process,and release him.

Im not completly shure about all fact in that agreements,but point is that US asked to write agreement that US troop,stacioned in their country,r passing trought country got completly imunity on any crime,and that US soldiers will not be charged on international court of law,and it was blackmailed by previusly promised financial help.

I spoked about this so many times,that i will stop here,i will not argue about hipocracy,and hiding higher interest under mask of human rights (Deporting POW-s on some island on foreign country,totruring them???)

 

From the website of rjsmith.com/1st Battalion 69th Armor website:

Myth: American Atrocities Were Widespread

If they were they were covered up with extraordinary skill and precision. Only two documented cases of War Crimes can be attributed to American Military personnel. One was the senseless slaughter of civilians in March 1968 at the village of My Lai by the 1st platoon of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion 20th Infantry, 11th Light Infantry Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division (Americal). The other was the murder of 16 noncombatant women and children by five U.S. Marines of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st Marine Division, at a village named Son Thang-4, southwest of Danang, on 19 February 1970. In both cases there was a court martial, and in both cases the accused were found guilty.
In the case of Lt. William Calley, President Nixon stepped in and pardoned him after he had spent three years under house arrest. Why Nixon did this is unknown, but it is beyond belief that he would do such a thing. For the end result is a slap in the face to every Vietnam Veteran who did their job and served with honor by adhering to the Rules of Land Warfare of the 1949 Geneva Convention which set the rules of engagement and expressly forbid the type of behavior exhibited by Calley and the thugs he commanded. They were not soldiers. They were thugs.

But while these egregious crimes have been trotted out at every opportunity by the anti-war movement, very little attention was paid to the horrendous atrocities committed by the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong on their own people. One of the end results of the 1968 Tet offensive was the deliberate roundup and murder of as many as 5,000 South Vietnamese civilians--doctors, teachers, lawyers, businessmen--by the NVA/VC during the periods that they held territory. The most widespread atrocities occurred in the Imperial city of Hue. There alone the Communists killed over 3,000 South Vietnamese. This behavior was not widely reported by the press, and either ignored by the anti-war movement at best, or justified by them as necessary in a socialist revolution.

Additionally, not much of a fuss has been made over the intentional murder of American civilians (including missionaries and USAID workers) captured and murdered by the North Vietnamese. U.S. POWs did not fair any better. Those that were not murdered were systematically tortured by the North Vietnamese. Although these atrocities qualify as war crimes under the Geneva Convention, the lunatic fringe of the radical left condones those acts as "justifiable".
----------------------------
I must thank "Che" for his link to this interesting website posted-up in the armor quiz section here. Interesting narrative and many rarely seen photos of tanks in Vietnam-era.

Tim