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B-24 Lib wreckage

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by Che_Guevara, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    ....in north africa, well preserved :eek: :eek:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    guess it´s time to restore it, however i´ve not enough money

    :( :(

    Regards,
    Che.
     
  2. CrazyThumbs

    CrazyThumbs New Member

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    Couldn't they not find the Lady be Good? Remember seeing something on TV about it.
     
  3. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Remarkable condition considering her age. Probably fit for static display, but I can't see her ever flying again with a broken back.

    Still, that's a worthwhile retirement for an old lady and I'm sure many a museum would be happy to house her.
     
  4. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    i think it was founded in the 60's by some oil workers, with a later search find some of the crew, i means the remains of the crew,
    sadly they got lost and keep flying until fuel was gone, :(
     
  5. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    the green crew with a green navigator flew over the coast and missed it ...the desert at night looks much like the ocean ...out of gas they bailed out with life rafts then died a horrble death of dehydraytion trying to walk 200 miles north in daytime temps of 120 degrees ..listed as mia.s until mid sixties when their mummified bodies where finally found many miles from the lady be good...a sad end
     
  6. Boba Nette

    Boba Nette New Member

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    It's the crew they couldn't find.Eventually all but one of the crew members remains were recovered.The aircraft was later confiscated by the government.I have no idea why.
     
  7. lynn1212

    lynn1212 New Member

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    lady be good

    IIRC she was given a bad steer by the RDF operater at her home base. i think at least one body was found with the aircraft.
     
  8. Miller phpbb3

    Miller phpbb3 New Member

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    well for the first pic, the little arab kids got something to play on/in
     
  9. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    Acctualy they were rookies on first or second mission.
    Overflying ADF (RDF) station and flying away from it thinking that you didn't reach it yet and/or flying reciprotial course (flying 180 degrees wrong course) is an honest mistake (too often happened to old hands). Only indication on instrument would be wrong indication of course deviance ( instrument showing left deviation instead of right and vice versa). Only indication of overfligt of ADF is when RDF instrument needle turnes 180 deg. Inexperiance or inattentivnes to instruments can couse missing that moment. B-24 (and other US bombers at the time) had astrodome for stellar navigation, but crew probably did not carry sextant (daytime mission) or/and was not well versed in it's use (also common mistake - remember KAL boeing 707 shot down in the middle of Siberia?).
    Experianced navigator would find that out, but crew were rookies used to flying in daytime and got lost at night. Couple that with expectation factor (seeing what you expect and disregarding everthing else) and you have recepie for such mistakes.
     
  10. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    the navigator let them down..even on dead reckoning with a wristwatch and hand held compass my 10 year old coulda done better than that ...tiso,the kal plane fell into the sea many miles off the russian coast, iiirc ,did the russians report it as being shot down in the middle of siberia ,really?
     
  11. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    This is so off topic but:
    We are talking about two different incidents. KAL007 was the plane shot down near Sakhalin, KAL902 was plane shot down near Murmansk.

    The KAL 007 was Boeing 747-200 (registration HL7442) and was shot down by Soviet PVO. It was "justifiable kill" as it was flying in non flying zone i.e. Soviet kill zone (old maps of the area have it quite clearly marked as shoot without warning zone) at Kamchatka and Sakhalin. BTW there is few books dealing with that incident. Most interesting in my opinion is Incident at Sakhalin: The True Mission of KAL Flight 007by Michel Brun, and Robert Bononno (Translator), (Four Walls Eight Windows, 1996, ISBN 1-56858-054-1). This book is well researched and gives unioqe insight but borders on conspiracy theory. Brun also made one interesting point regarding Osipenko (the guy who suposedly shot down KAL007). Osipenkos regiment was flying MiG-31 at the time (they rearmed about 2 months previously). Existance of MiG-31 was officialy acgnoliged by SSSR only much later. Book makes interesting pint in dealing with warious radar sightings and supposes that series of incidents happened in time span of over one hour and few planes of both sides went down (soviet did gave to Koreans parts of EF-111 as part of KAL007 wreckege). He was also the only writer that acctualy went trough Japanese archives and articles dealing with the incident and visited the area. According to him KAL went down much to the south but fails to detail reasons for it (basic supposition is that it was mistakenly shot down by Japanese who were in full state of alert becouse of incidents to the north). he also makes plausible explenation to KAL007 radio silence on official air traffic frequencies but also proves that KAL007 was still transmitting 45 minutes after it was officialy killed. Basicly if you are unfamilliar with civilian aviation terminology and procedures you will have difficoulty reading this book.

    You should also read Soviet/Russian series of articles dealing with KAL007 (english translation is somwhere on the net). They were written in 1990's but are written in classical soviet style and have to be read between the lines (basicly they give the facts right and then makes official conlusion which basicly contradictes the facts).

    In my previous post i was talking about KAL902( registration HL7429), which was shot down near Murmansk on april 20. 1978 after it penetrated Soviet airspace and failed to respond to Soviet interceptors. Plane was hit and preformed emergency landing on frozen lake. 2 of the passangers were killed and 107 passangers and crew survived. KAL902 was shot down by Su-15 of Capt. A. Bosov.
    After Sakhalin incident Su-15 earned nickname Being killer.
     
  12. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    Still off topic:
    mentioned in previous post series of articles about KAL007 in Izvestia: Investigation, (Andrej ILLESH,Aleksandr SHALNEV (ICAO part) 1991):
    http://avia.russian.ee/air/747/kale_1.html

    Comparison of media coverage of KAL 007 and IA 655:
    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1527

    Incident at Sakhalin:
    The true mission of KAL flight 007
    by Michel Brun

    PDF:
    http://aeronautics.ru/archive/pdf/literature/Incident at Sakhalin.pdf
    Same in ZIP for download:
    http://aeronautics.ru/archive/pdf/literature/Incident at Sakhalin.zip
    BTW Brun is certified pilot (aslo owns his own small aviation bussines) and sea captain.
     
  13. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    sry ,tiso , i didnt relize there were 2 incidents with kal...my dad was a kmag advisor to rok army in early sixties in taegu ...he said he wouldnt want to ride in a taxi cab driven buy a korean ,much less a 747....
     
  14. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    KAL902 incident was result of honest navigational mistake. Only crime in it was noncompliance with international rules by Korean flight crew i.e. not obeying Soviet interceptors who did everything by the book (for details look relevant coventions and annexes on international air traffic).

    KAL007 seems much more sinister. Crew was very experianced (all ex military). Boeing 747-200 has 3 independant INS sytems (Inertial navigation systems) + all additional radio navigation (ADF, VOR/DME...). It couldn't possibly stray so far north off course without diliberate action of flight crew. Even if unlikley situation happened and all INS systems failed there was still radio navigation systems and good old whiskey compass and maps.
    There is also a question of why Anchorage flight control did not warn KAL007 of being off course when they seen it on their radar.

    Read the book i linked to. You may find some segments a little boring and some seems far fetched but they do rely on facts.
     

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