USA Image problem?

Uh - they paid back some of it. And not a very big 'some' either.

 

...and they still owe Britain a small fortune in unpaid royalties for the Nene too IIRC

 

Britain who, I shall point out with some smugness, has paid back all their Lend-Lease payments.

 

To update my earlier comments. As best as I can determine very little was ever repaid. In 1974 the USSR unilaterally cancelled the 1972 settlement agreement while still owing 674 million of the debt.
I have been so far unable to find where a later settlement was made...perhaps after the USSR collapsed..but no luck so far.

 

AS I continually point out when this is brought up. It is true that Britain paid back all of the agreed upon amount. It is also true of course that the amount agreed upon was a small fraction of the actual debt.
Nevertheless I give Britain a lot of credit for paying back as much as they did. Had they wanted to engage in hard negotiating and get the debt reduced to a small token amount I'm sure that they could have done so without harming Anglo/American relations yet they paid back the full amount of the agreed upon settlement.

 

Britain who, I shall point out with some smugness, has paid back all their agreed Lend-Lease payments.

 

I find tons of PIC on google when US soldiers excecute civilians and POW-s.Ok,considere ur...particulary right,not all 3 mil Vietnames was civilians,lets considere only 1 mil.And lets considere that 80% was not killed as u say "colateral damage". 200 000 deliberately killed civilians is not enought for some serius conviction? Do any soldier,just plain JI convicted for some serius penalty,includin the Mui Lai massacre? And what about commans responsibility? ( i seriusly doubth that Milosevic killed somebody with his own hand). US like to be policeman,but with double standards.And not so while a go,i sow aritcle on the net how 3 US soldiers raped and killed 16y old girl in Iraq. And i know for incident when 3 workers in bar (macedonia) spanked 18 NATO commandos (pure true)

 

...and are being tried by a US military court, if convicted the soldier who instigated this may face the death penalty. But of course you fail to mention this... :roll:

And your point is...?

Speculation pure and simple. You are picking numbers out of the air and you still have presented no evidence beyond vague assumptions for the mass-murder of civilians.

 

I did not know that they on trial,i just sow article when they was captured.If ur right,ok,lets ait to conviction then.


FOr spanked commandos...it was just funny thing :lol:


Anyway,tryth is around 3 mil dead Vitnames,nobod will ewer know exsact figure.But eawen US public know that GI there kill civilians,rest of the world allso,and yes i did spekulated with numbers,but in way when i decreesed number of deliberately killed. If u know betther numbers be free to share it with me,but u,same as me know that US soldiers made slaughter there.

 

There is no hard data to support any of those numbers. Not 3 million and not 1 million. Even the people making estimates of total numbers of Vietnamese dead are talking about those killed from all causes yet you try to say it was murder with nothing to support your charge. That is of course a deliberate distortion.
There were very few cases of US troops deliberately killing Vietnamese civilans. We have discussed My Lai but there are only isolated instances beyond that. The Communists would have loved to be able to prove that the US was engaging in wanton and wholesale slaughter of civilians. It wasn't happening so it was too difficult for them to fake it (on a large scale) so they didn't even try.

 

Ok,i srarting to post PIC-s and u see alone.

http://www.downtheroad.org/Asia/Photo/3Vietnam_Pictures/3War_Remnants_Museum.htm


Do i need to post more,r this is enought?

 

First picture is of My Lai which nobody here has disputed. Dead ranged from 347 to 504 depending upon source. The killing was stopped by a US helicopter pilot who threatened to fire opon the US troops if it wasn't stopped. You are wrong also about nobody being convicted.
The second picture is not an American but a South Vietnamese General executing a suspected VC during Tet.

Didn't we already cover this ground in the My Lai thread, or did you forget?

Better get going you have a long ways to go to reach a million. I don't think you can find as much proof of American atrocities as you can of Serb atrocities. But then you aren't looking for Serb atrocities, only American, so you will be mostly disappointed.

 

But try to proove (not by US oficials statmens,r something like that,i want hard evidences) that serbs killed civilians.As i sayed many times,Ex Yu war bodycount was 250-300k on all 3 sides,for roughly 5-6y.Compare that vith Vietnam 3 mil,on 10y u winned the golden medall! U probably dont know that in bosnia,u had no official army,there was national army maden by natives who lived there.Try to remember that Serbian population in Bosnia was somthing between 40-50% (closer to 40% i think),and serbian population in Croatia was around 400k ppl.U know how much Serbs left there? None.Etchning cleansning,and genocide definition fit in that.Do Serbia provide support for Serbs in bosnia and croatia? Shure we did.Why US provide support to Israle when they make agression on Lebanon? I dont know that,u can tell me.Internation court of law realesed Serbia from charges for Genocide.Who is responsible for killing is charged r convicted.Probably not all of them,but i really dont hawe problem to convict killers,no matther to nationality.But who,from US is convicted? Mui Lai massacre as i remember that Soldier got 2y of house detenion??? It is a joke! And leh add to all of this many otther US angagment in coflict all ower the world+ilegal ones what i mention,and TISO provide much more info then me...

 

Unless you speak coherently and narrow your focus your posts makes no sense. It's just an unfocused rant against the US. I'm not referring to your poor English but to your jumping from one subject to another in the same sentence. As far as Serbian war crimes go you can go to the human rights watch site or the UN commission site and find what you need.
Why are you back to using the 3 million number which is absurd( and that you have shown no evidence for except one picture from My Lai and one picture of a South Vietnamese General).

Lt. Calley was sentenced to life imprisonment. As so often happens you are mistating facts again. It happens so often and so blatantly that it must be deliberate. Of course I'm aware that he only served 2.5 yrs house arrest however that was not due to any lack of dilligence on the part of the military to try and convict him, which they did, but due to what I see as a failure of our justice system. It's unfortunate, but it does happen sometimes, in all free countries where the rights of individuals are protected.

 

I would suggest that the mass graves of civilians that have been discovered in Bosnia by the UN and IFOR would constitute evidence.

 

are these new discoverys simon...when did this happen , and how many bodies found to date?

 

The 3 million estimated figure includes all Vietnamise dead (including military personnel), and is in fact over 16 years, not 10. 10 years is the time period that the US was most involved.

In 1975, Vietnam's population was 48 million.
In 1991, the area once known as Yugoslavia's population was 23.5 million

In a 16-year war 6.25% of Vietnam's population died
In a 6-year war, 12.7% of the ex-Yugoslavia's population died

Statistics can be fun.


You still have not made an answer to my points. You have claimed to find pictures of deliberate US killings, but they are actually ARVN killings.

You claim that the population of the US (and the world) 'know' that US soldiers killed civilians. 2 questions.

1) How do they know? Were they there? Or did they just swallow biased media reporting?
2) I am sure that sometimes civilians were killed by US forces. It would be hard to be at war for 10 years and not have such accidents. But how many deliberate killings were there?

The US military does try and convict soldiers who commit atrocities. Their sentances might get cut short later on by the nmational legal system, which is far from ideal, but the military does not let them get away with atrocities in the first place.

 

Ok,i provede u link to some PIC by look like nobody botther to see it.

http://www.downtheroad.org/Asia/Photo/3Vietnam_Pictures/3War_Remnants_Museum.htm
will u atleast botther to see it? WDM used in Nam is not the crime? That tortures PIC? Face it that 50% of US personal by they own admit was druged r drunk most of the time in Vietnam.

About my poor enlish,whell i newer learned english in scool,all this i learned myself,so im satisfaed with my knowlege.

I think that ur calculation is not good...
12% from 23.5 mil is 2.8m.....not 280k....

 

90% of those pictures are complete BS.
American soldier laughing historically? Lol...it can clearly be seen from the photo that he isn't laughing at all. Many of the other photos establish no facts whatsoever. For instance men being dragged to their death? or dragged after already dead? No way to tell from that photo. One is rather ghoulish behaviour but not murder whilst the other would be murder. No way to tell from the photo.
Image of grunt committing war crimes? What war crime is being committed in that photo. It isn't clear. It looks like he is being bound, perhaps tightly.
No, these photos of war are disturbing as war usually is but do not provide evidence of widespread war crimes.

You state that 50% of US veterans admit...etc..
how do you know this? 50% of Vietnam veterans would be about 1.5 million men as I recall the stats. Who talked to these 1.5 million men?
Who published this study?

Stop trying to get sympathy due to your poor Enlish skills. I clearly stated that I wasn't referring to your poor language skills but to your lack of a logical and focused argument. If you are proud of your skills and you can understand the language then surely you read and understood my earlier comments to that effect.

I'm still waiting for reliable sources that provide hard data that establishes that 3 million Vietnamese died much less that they were murdered unlawfully.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: the photos of children born with disfiguring disabilties; there is no way to establish the cause. Such children are born in Vietnam (and elsewhere ) every day. To put there photo there and state that the cause was Agent Orange is complete BS.Tthere is no evidence either that they were exposed to Agent Orange or that Agent Orange causes such defects.