Genocide against white farmers

Again, be careful with your words! Rhodesian culture, from what I have gathered from it through conversation with Rhodesian expats, was not like South African apartheid. Blacks were not seen as "sub-human" or inferior. The top Rhodesian schools were multiracial, for example. There were no group areas.

More seriously, the murders are not a consequence of the Rhodesian civil war or the policies held before it.

To back up the statement: If that were true, then it would be logical that the murders and farm overtakings would be at there worst directly after the war, 1978 and onwards. This was not the case. In fact, things started going bad during the 90s - and the generation perpetrating them had grown up in a Rhodesia under Robert Mugabe.

Some of the murders are merely criminal. But many of them were instigated by Zanu-PF and perpetrated by the Zanu-PF youth militia, young men who were in no way involved in the civil war, nor the repressive policies that were upheld before it. Therefore, "being treated as subhuman" does not hold up as a reason.

 

I think you present a very good point there and I agree completely with the moral principles... On the eve of the 1994 elections, many South African blacks could breathe a sigh of relief and speak of "dignity restored".

Che makes an interesting note of mature politicians. When you look into it, many of the problems in African countries are the result of bad leadership, not a inferiority of African people. I think what Africa needs now is time, not years or decades, but perhaps many generations to set things straight. Many countries are recently having their first stab at democracy. When given good leadership (like Nelson Mandela) amazing things can be achieved - like pulling South Africa from the brink of civil war, calming intense interracial and tribal hatred, revise the tax system, and turn the economy around from a negative GDP growth to a positive one.

 

Sorry about the comment Panzerman, you'll find I tend to overreact...

But when you only give me a rolly-eye-face to work with, its difficult to understand what you mean?? I thought it was a racism jab

As for the brutality of the murders I doubt doubt you one bit, we hear about these things over here as well

*Political incorrectness warning*
I seem to have a recollection of a conversation with a white South African af few years back, though I can't remember who... might've been the aunties' relatives... Anyway, his point of view was that us Australians had the right idea exterminating the inhabitants before settlement; No vengeful population to cause trouble, you see...

I'm sure that the white population in South Africa aren't the most tolerant bunch you ever met either... Though to compare them to those who commit the murders/rapes is excessive; a history of discrimination is NOT a valid excuse to commit such revolting crimes...
It's easy to see who the victims are here...

 

Hehe, not uncommon that. White South Africans are a very diverse bunch. The "old generation" is still tinted by crude racism with undercurrents of religous nationalism, some of which leaks down to the younger guys. The good news is that the current generation is getting a long a lot better - desegregated schools and time to heal the wounds are to thank for it.

The Black "problem" that exists now is also a product of the white policies of the last centuries. "If" whites had been working to empower and educate blacks from 1948 onwards and not the opposite, perhaps farm murders would not have been an issue.

 

Perhaps. But that does not justify what Mugabe and his followers are doing to the whites. Two wrongs do not make a right; never have, never will.

 

Well Australia tried to do just that and the result was really no different; far worse in the context human rights... From the 1900's to the 1970's, the Australian Government abducted at least 100,000 Aboriginal children from their tribal communities and sent them to 'education camps'... Where they would recieve a western style education...

Not sure if anyone outside of Australia has head about this... Pretty darn famous here... Commonly referred to as the 'Stolen Generation'... The Government has admitted that the forcible internment was unconstitutional, though it was not found to be 'genocide'... The stolen generation really had nothing but negative effects on those who were interned; depression, suicide, and delinquency... A far cry from the 'empower and educate' ideal that may or may not have been the foundation for it

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/U ... 98/17.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Gen ... Generation

 

No both things you mentioned are not good, even if the people didn´t suffered. You can compare the history of a nation and come to the conclusion that the former system was bad if you have a democratic one now. But the point is that the people of zimbabwe are not free atm, Mugabe is a brutal dictator, who eliminates the opposition. He does not only kill white farmers, he even torture his people, the so called liberator.
So what I want to say is, that Rhodesia was much better then the goverment of zimbabwe for now and the current system. That doesn´t mean that Rhodesia could beat a democratic zimbabwe, but it could easily beat the current zimbabwe. Rhodesia was even more democratic then zimbabwe is today, the only one who gets feed is Mugabe. Rhodesia once a granary now a mass grave!!

Hope I made my point clear, the best would be a democratic nation, with educated people. But now we have a nation with some little minds, a brutal dictatorship and starvation. Rhodesia would have been a much better base for democratic transformation.

Thats a good video, which shows how well Rhodesia worked and how good people lived there. Some old videomaterial of salisbury, which was unfortunately renamed, same shit with Saigon :-?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDg3ofh ... ed&search=

The Rodesian army was one of the strongest armies in africa and many black soldiers served there as well

Rhodesian Independence in 1967

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Ne_ep2 ... ed&search=

Unfortunately this organised and peaceful world is lost forever Thanks to the destabilize actions of the USSR and China, which supplied arms to the so called liberators, who only represent a small part of the black population in Rhodesia. The farm attacks were commit by young people, coz Mugabe can´t mobilize the one, who lived their lifes under the white rule in Rhodesia, but young minds can be formed by this criminal subject. I remember the plane of Air Rhodeisa which was downed with soviet missles
the survivors were killed in massacre, that seemed to be nice prelude for the future.
Rhodesia had just one manko, that the blacks were not represented in the goverment, that´s it. Zimabawe lacking of everthing, nurses, teachers, educated people, humanity, food. So if Rhodesia would have had enough time to be transformated to a more democratic country, this nation would be the finest on earth.

Regards,
Che.

 

Wow, talk about mixing the cards! :-?

 

edit*

Sry Varyag, I´ve confused the meaning of "What's the point of that" with "So what".

Regards,
Che.

 

Perhaps, but Che does have a valid point. The old Rhodesian government, for all of its flaws, was a lot better than what Mugabe is inflicting on the nation right now. What disgusts me is the number of people here in the USA who seem to think Mugabe is some sort of African version of Martin Luther King. They put him up on a pedastal, invite him to speak before them here, and completely ignore his human rights abuses. :roll:

 

I believe there is a misunderstanding. I am referring solely to South Africa and its Apartheid system that began in 1948 and not to Rhodesia and events that transpired in 1967 onwards.

I loathe Mugabe as much as anyone else.

 

Wasn't mugabe good at first ? But he didnt want to relinquish power and loss support, so he well turned into what we see him like today ?

 

Perhaps. But I think it's more likely that what he is now is what he has always been; it's just come out into the open now.

 

He has always been a pragmatic, corrupt, authoritarian thug with Hitleresque ambitions. In my eyes he is up there with Pol Pot and Stalin.

 

I would like to say that he´s not such a problem at all, doesn´t have to mean that he is no problem, but the biggest problem is caused by emotionally disturbed, who supported and support him. ahhhhhh, I´ve seen a video about Bob Marley and since I´m not interessted in his lyrics, just his music, I didn´t care, but he sang on the independences day, get up for your rights and much more gobbledygook bla bla, but even at this tragic point of history, when Rhodesia was no more they partied and forgot this

Regards,
Che.

 

It seems to me that most people only mind oppression when it is them being opressed - and once the tables are turned, they don't mind becoming oppressors themselves.

"Do not let yesterdays opressed become tomorrows opressors"

- Desmond Tutu, on the actions of South African President Thabo Mbeki

 

Words of wisdom, but they will be continue to be ignored in Zimbabwe.