Why Arabs Lose Wars

http://www.meforum.org/article/441

Came across this article went avoiding doing any work. Despite the perhaps jingoistic title, the article itself isn't but is well writen and interesting.


Edit: In many respects the problems the articles writer mentions reminds me of where I work. :-?

 

because God loves the jews?

 

intresting read ebar , thankyou..its heartening to note that whatever weapons the arabs might buy , their ancient parinoid ,initative crushing ,distrustful , corrupt tribal culture makes it virtually impossible for them to defeat any western force ever .like the man says arab recruits are tough and hardy soldiers as individuals ..but at anything above battalion level comand and control is hopeless and it always will be it would seem...

 

Now there's an argument that makes historical sense...

This is an interesting article, unfortunately I haven't read all of it yet. I will get back to this thread soon, just had to deliver the sniding remark above.

 

Actually, your snide remark makes a lot of sense. If you look at all the various persecutions the Jews have suffered over the last few thousand years, they are doing very well indeed just to still be around. Other Religions have crumbled & died in a shorter time and with less repression. Baal-worship, for example, or Zoastarianism. Or the Druidical systems - don't get me started on the people who prance around Stonehenge in white gowns pretending to be Druids... :roll:

But anyway, moving on!

 

They're still around in large numbers. The good deal of them just moved on to India.They became "Indian-Parsai". A famous indian-parsai is Freddie Mercury

 

I open a topic on Arabs and war, and some how within a few replies its moved to Freddie Mercury truly internet discussions can go in some strange directions.

 

Indeed.

 

If there is no God, then maybe the Jews to just happen to be at the right place at the right time with the right stuff to beat an overwhelming force.

 

About the whole arabs losing wars. Did anyone stop to think that the Isreali's are better prepared ? They have better weapons in most cases, more thorough training, and almso anyone can become a soldier. Plus, the israeli's have nowhere to really retreat.

 

But not always.

The Yom Kippur War (1973) saw the Arab nations using top-of-the-range Soviet equipment (particularly anti-aircraft weaponry) and catching the entire nation of Israel off guard by attacking during a religious festival. It took several days from them to deploy anything like normally. And they still won.


However, I think you have broadly the right reasons.

1) Better motivation. We fight or we and our families die.

2) Better training / better use of equipment.

3) Overall, more prepared for warfare at the drop of a hat.

 

God loves everyone, actually, although He isn't too happy with a lot of the things that we do.

 

actually the isralies were well aware of the yom kippur war in the offing ... but they were warned by the white house to not get off the line first like they did in 67 ...because they were accused by many as being the aggressors in 67 (which is of course , nonsense ) ..so in 73 they had to sit still and take it on the chin ...then they could hit back ..they were caught off balance by some of the new soviet gear which sadat was able to spring on them....bridgeing equipment ,aaa ,anti tank stuff ..once again the idf pulled a rabbit out of the hat ! ..one has to wonder if they will be so liucky and clever next time ...

 

What next time? Who is likely to try a conventional attack against them when all of them have failed?

 

I think the Egyptian anti-tank teams--armed with saggers--were likely more devastating to Israeli armor than T-62 MBTs in tank vs tank combat.
The Israelis lost a bunch of tanks when they counter-attacked in the Sinai, before they realized what they were facing.
They finally eliminated the threat by infliltrating infantry troops into the Egyptian positions to take-out the entrenched anti-tank "sagger" teams, and clear the way before Israeli armor could advance.
The Golan Heights battles strike me as some of the most intense, historic tank vs tank battles the world has seen since Kursk. The Israeli tankers, mostly reservists, gave their all, fighting with Centurians and upgunned Shermans against T-62s with night-vision.
I think the numbers were something like 180 Israeli tanks verus 1,300 Syrian tanks. They call that area now "The Valley of Tears." The Israelis absolutely devastated the Syrian armor.
There have been some great books written on the subject and they make for a fascinating read. Israeli tankers fought without rest until their tanks were knocked-out or ran out of ammo. They would rearm, or switch to a running tank, and they kept the pressure on the Syrians until reinforcements could arrive. A stunning victory.

Tim

 

yes hossier, those anti tank missiles played havoc on the lead israeli tanks in the first brush with egyptian infantry , the isralies were caught off guard by the swiftness of canal crossing by sadats men ,water cannons and soviet bridgeing equipment ..in the golan idf tankers endless practice at really long range gunnery really paid off also israeli tank comanders considered it pussy to button up in combat ,standing tall in the turret so as to see the enemy first and shoot first .this causes some losses to enemy bullets and shell splinters but i guess they figure its a good trade off in the long run , i wonder if this open hatch tradition is still the norm in idf tanker doctrine...

 

woody:
Not sure if "doing an Israeli" or standing tall in the turret to observe is still practised or not. Likely not smart in close-in urban fighting, but I imagine in open tank-country the ability to observe is still seen as advantageous.
Many Israeli tank-commanders were wounded or killed when exposed to enemy direct and indirect fire.
I think Israeli tank-gunners deserve much credit for their marksmanship and gunnery skills. Those Syrian T-62s paid dearly as the battlefield was littered with hundreds of their smoking hulks.
Later they were returned to combat in Israeli markings as Ti-67s. (Actually the Ti-67 was based on captured T-54/55 MBTs.)

Tim

 

That must have been reassuring for the crews
"Sarge where did we get this tank?"
"Oh off the battlefield, there was a huge hole in the front of the hull, right where your head is."
:-?

 

Of course, the Israelis would likely make better use of it than did the previous owners did.

 

Ebar:
Correction:
The Israeli Ti-67 was based on captured T-54/T-55 MBTs. Not the T-62 series.

My understanding is they were"Israelized" by their new owners with 105mm M68 main guns and the addition of .30 and .50 cal machine guns. Also revised ammo storage and room for more rounds. (I was also thinking their engines were also replaced, but I can't confirm.)

Tim