M-13 versus British cruisers

There's a "what if" thing going on at the forum of Commando Supremo. They ask themselves what if the Italians kept advancing towards Alexandria in september '39.
Well, sooner or later they have to attack the 7th AD. IIRC, the 7th AD was mainly cruiser tanks in those days and just a handfull of mathilda tanks.
So, i wonder, the Italian 47mm AT gun and the M-13 tank, how good are they in a fight against cruiser tanks. Are they better, equals or do they get shot to pieces before they can even damage a cruiser tank?

 

Italy didn't declare war on Britain and France until the 10th June 1940.

 

I wasn't aware that the brits had shipped tanks out to North African till 1940 and that they only had AC's till then?

FNG

 

The type of crusier tank would make a difference. If they were mostly the A9 or A10... bad news for the Brits. Except that these tanks were still fast, and given that the Italians did not have quite the grip on tactics as the British did... I'd say the Brits would have struggled more, but still have been able to defeat the Italians. Mostly thanks to leadership (ie: poor on the Italian side) and troop motivation (again, mostly poor on the Italian side).

Where the Italian would score highly in Africa in 1939 is in the air. The most modern RAF presence would be the Gladiator (fighter) and Wellesley (long-range bomber) - plus a mixed bag of older aircraft.

 

oeps, of course i meant the offensive in september 1940. My mistake

 

FNG.

They had Vickers Light tanks in the main. With a sprinkling of A9s & the odd obsolete Vickers Medium.

 

Quillin.

It was mainly L3 & about 70 of the mechanically unreliable M11/39 in June of 1940 for the Italians.

 

IIRC, there where some M-13's available.
But we can always expand the qestion by asking ourselves how good the M-11/39 would handle itself against British tanks.

 

Quillin.

I can't place any before the end of September 1940 at the earliest, but I would be keen on any information you (or anyone else) has to the contrary.

 

Well, the M-13 started poduction in march '40. So i thought there would be some M-13's in North Africa by september. There were already 3 batalions in Lybia by october so i think about 2 batalions would already be there in september, since production rate was very low.
Off course i'm not really the tank expert and i'm learning more and more every day. So if you say that there were no M-13's in Lybia before the end of september, then that would be the case. I just thoought that they had already arrived there at the start of Operation Compass, it appears that it's not.

 

Perhaps we can tell by which units were there?

I & II (M) Battaglione Were M11/39.

III Battaglione was M13/40. But I don't have it arriving until late September.

V Battaglione was M13/40. But I have it arriving Mid December.

VI Battaglione was M13/40. But it didn't arrive until Jan 1941.

Thats all the Carri (M) Battaglione isn't it?

 

Did a whole day of digging for info. I must tell you Dave, i found your post already very detailed so it took some time to find all the info. It seems that now it is my time to impress you with details.
http://www.comandosupremo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28359#28359
The 3th post would be the info we need.
It seems that i assumed it wrongly and that you were right. The M-13 tank arrived at the front after the Italians stoped advancing into Egypt.