China Furious over Dalai Lama's US Award

Nationalists were first stationed in Burma-Chinese border and supported by US and were kicked out after they started meddling into Burmese interior affairs massively pissing of Burmese goverment and minorities of the north (Shen and Kochin) and dealing with opium on the grand scale (war has to be financed somehow). They were transported by US to Formosa ( a teritory China had no rightfull claim before that) which was japanese mandate territory under US occupational authority since 1945. Previously there were no or almost no Chinese on Formosa. BTW they did do a little genocide over formosa natives which is something even japanese didn't do.

A little reminder. Chinese civil was started by general Chiang. Communists were more or less abandoned by Stalin. His idiotic reprisal strategy only strengtened the communists. For countryside farmers coice was clear either get hanged by Chiang's men, Japanese (in Manjuria) or join the reds.
Only reason why Chiang made peace with communists in the late 30's was Japanese attack that destroyed his forces and Soviet military help that was result of this treaty ( tanks, fighters, bombers, infantry wapons and eqipment and training personell for all this stuff on the grand scale) which went directly to him (not the communists).

 

Much of the political tension between China and Taiwan is actually caused by Taiwanese conservatives of the GMD - yes, Chiang's party still exists. These people refuse to acknowledge Communist China as an independent state and still dream of reunifying the country under the Nationalist flag. Luckily, the majority of the Taiwanese population has either moved on from this ideal or has simply never regarded themselves as anything but Taiwanese.

Essentially, the government that ruled Taiwan from 1949 to 1984 was a dynasty in exile, hoping to keep themselves alive in order to eventually return to the mainland.

 

Taiwan has always been Chinese territory. It's always been theirs before the dutch colonized it in 1624.
Ming naval forces subsequently defeated the dutch in 1662 and drove them out. Then Qing forces finally annexed Formosa in 1683.

Therefore, Tiso's account,isn't entirely accurate i guess.

Chiang lost the civil war and was going to lose Taiwan too if not for US intervention. Taiwan has always been part of Mainland China and should one day,go back into its fold.

 

"Ming naval forces" is perhaps a slightly pompous name for the fleet of a pirate freelancer who decided to take sides...

Also, I think "always" is too big a word in this case. Taiwan was part of China for a very long time, that is certainly true; on the other hand, it has been over a century since the government of mainland China had much to say about the island for any significant length of time. After sixty years of Japanese occupation and another near-sixty years of Nationalist rule, Taiwan has definitely become quite distinct in terms of its culture and heritage. It is for this reason that many people in Taiwan are actually Taiwanese Nationalists, in that they regard their island as an independent and unique state that does not have anything to do with China anymore.

There isn't really any reason to say Taiwan "should" rejoin mainland China in the future, particularly (of course) because no one in Taiwan wants to join a totalitarian state. Whatever China thinks it is entitled to is highly outdated; it's time they reconsider exactly why they're saying Taiwan is theirs.

Meanwhile there is the other claim - the GMD is still dreaming about reconquering all of China. Considering how Taiwan has developed over the past few decades, it might even be reasonable to say that China should join Taiwan rather than the other way around.

 

Kaiser:
I was hoping to hear some input and perspective from you on this topic!

Tim

 

I have to agree with Roel on this. I'd like to add that self-determination has long been the primary benchmark by which the UN has decided who should live under what government. The Taiwanese, even those who are not diehard Kuomintang types, have no desire whatsoever to live under the rule of the Beijing government, and by no stretch of the imagination should they be forced to do so. If they were to vote to join up with the mainland, that would, of course, be different. But since that is very unlikely to happen, then the Chinese Communists need to be reminded to keep their hands off Taiwan.

 

Well a Pirate freelancer is too degrading a word when this pirate freelancer drove off the Royal Dutch navy, conquered the Dutch fortresses and made the Dutch governer signed a treaty.

 

And where is your sources from my dear European and American friends?
Though i am no supporter of China's current system of government, it doesn't mean that it is all evil. IT's simply a matter of perspective. I am sure that when the Dutch emissary first kowtow-ed to the Qing Emperor,most of the European nations of the day would have despised such an act.But to the Dutch perspective,they were just being pragmatic.

So in the same spirit, whatever the Chinese has been doing works,and has worked well for them. Chinese economic development will soon overshadow most of Asia's economy in the future if they play their cards right. And despite what the world may say about Chinese goods, there are quality "made in China" stuff out there as well. No one breathed a word when Opium was imported to China despite what the British Crown thought of Opium on English society . But the Brits did bring development!

Many in Asia are looking to China now for opportunities. In fact,given the Taiwanese political parties are always fighting literally in their congress and how alot of Taiwanese are dis-illusioned,i don't see how China should join Taiwan according to what Roel said. In fact,there is a significant enough percentage of the Taiwanese people who would want to see themselves back to the Mainland. But i am sure the western news don't capture that because they don't really make for interesting news. Even now,some Taiwanese politicians are suggesting a right of self determination. And we all know this does not equate to independence.

As for Taiwan being more developed than China,i'd have to agree that for now,Taiwan indeed is so. However,looking at the way things are going,i am sure the facts will soon speak for themselves.

 

.

On the original post ,the Dalai Lama reception in the white house and congress was as an official state guest , it came nicely at the time the chinese communist party got its quinquennial congress , the closest thing they got to elections :-?
Of course every chinese politico started to make noise , the top guys had to go one better or else appear soft .

No big deal , as for why the U.S. should care about China
weeeell they have 1.3 trillion dollard of I.O.U. on the federal reserve and they are paying for the irak war , that's why

.

 

..tiso is correct about the great economic power the chinese wield over america and the west,( they have all our money ,you see ) ..the chinese govt has the power to buy us outright and are in fact trying to do so right now ,,banks ,corporations ,utilitys ..its a free market and they are the richest bidder you`ll ever see ...

 

.


That's where it get sooo funny ,
The Chinese are the ones the most concerned about the health of the U.S. economy and in particular the strength of the dollar,
while good u.s. patriots could see a kamikaze low dollar with hight inflation as a way of saving their manufacturing and shaking this big monkey of their back :smok:
Imagine china holding 90% devaluated bonds
The same way Britain in the seventies welshed on paying pensions to a generation of retired and bonds holders before Thatcher and north sea oil saved the day


.

 

Well what Saudis didn't buy already.

 

.

first it was the Saudis in the seventies , then the Japaneses in the eighties now it's the Chineses in the noughties
people keep buying the U.S. and somehow end up on the wrong end of the stick .I would suspect that the brooklin bridge got sold as often as Paramount studios

the wall streets wise guys are as expert at fleecing the newcomers as the Australian bookies at shearing the punters :roll:


.

 

These other countries all underestimate our ability to bounce back from financial disaster and to shear any sheep unwise enough to come within our grasp.

 

well since they have all our money ,i guess the least they could do is spend it all here...

 

He did all these things, but how does that change the fact that he was a pirate freelancer? A remarkably succesful pirate freelancer is still a pirate freelancer.

The fact that China is an upcoming superpower whose economic potential far outranges that of any other country is undeniable. This is a simple consequence of their resources in manpower. I'm not one to deny the quality of their products either. However, simply because they're becoming more prosperous doesn't mean they are to be seen as an example that others should aspire to or seek to join. After all, states like Taiwan and South Korea pulled off a similar feat of economic rise several decades before China did, and in a system of relative political freedom; this is why I said (albeit half jokingly) that maybe China should join Taiwan instead of the other way around.

Certainly there are those in Taiwan who wish to reunite with China, but there's only a tiny few who wish to join China as it is now. They envision a reunited China as being ruled by the descendants of the Nationalists, not the Communists. This is why it is really strange to say that Taiwan should rejoin China, as you said they should; why should they, if none of them want to? If the majority in fact think of themselves as Taiwanese rather than Chinese?

 

I sometimes wonder if the UN will someday try to force Taiwan to submit to Beijing. I don't know how they'd do such a thing, but I keep thinking that it's possible.

 

My dear Roel, Taiwan was emancipated by a Ming Prince called Zheng Cheng Gong. He was granted the royal surname of the Ming emperor.Though his father was in fact a pirate, aren't we all taught not to look at the background of a person?

And Roel, i do not think there are just a few. There appears to be a many such activists lobbying for a return to China. And why should Taiwan accept China and not the other way round? Looking at Taiwanese politics on my news channel, it seems they are more famous for slapping female politicians and throwing chairs at each other in congress.

And if your theory is that China should join Taiwan simply because most Taiwanese envision the mainland as one ruled by Nationalists.And also simply because a majority,no doubt, of Taiwanese wishes independence. Then in your same theory, Taiwan should rejoin China simply because alot of Chinese wants Taiwan back simply,as we have established earlier, that Taiwan belongs to China.

The situation would be just the same if the South during the American civil war hold on to Rhode Island or something until now and refuses to back down.

 

I think taiwan would have a better chance of a UN seat if they dropped their reunification under democratic-nationalist chinese rule and asserted more independence

 

Especially if they don't understand international finance.
How does one go about "cashing in" Treasury Bills? They are bonds with a specified term of maturity and cannot be redeemed earlier. They can be sold (at a discount, usually) to third parties but that has no effect upon the entity that issued them (the US government).
Actually, the huge foreign purchases of T Bills at a time when interest rates have bottomed out will turn out to be poor investments for the purchasers. Their returns will be poor compared to current investors and as interest rates rise the value of their bonds will fall.
Somebody had to finance the huge budget deficits resulting in part from the Iraq war. Better the Chinese and Russians do this than the US taxpayer IMO