should nazi memorabilia be banned?

there are many people that think it should be banned because of what it stands for but some people collect all types of World War Two memorabilia not for what it stands for but for the fact is that it was in the war?

{any sense made there?}

 

Of course it shouldn't be, Millions of Germans fought and died in World War Two, why should they not have their history remembered and protected like we remember our War dead.

Whats your opinion?

 

Hello,

Personally I feel that if the German WW2 items should be banned, so should ANY war relic, including Civil War, etc. etc. Just becuase a few people get upset over a "symbol", does not mean history can or should ever be erased. Hitler said that his 3rd Reich would last 1000 years, and I believe it was Wilhelm Frick at the Nuremburg war trials said that 1000 years will pass, and the guilt of Germany will not be erased.

History is, and will always be with us. There are many people that are interested in studying the history to prevent the past from every happening again. The people that try to erase the past are only erasing the symbol, and not truly erasing what actually happened as that is impossible.

Fred Konig

 

Fred's right.

If you ban nazi memorabilia, what next? Ban any book that might show a picture of a swastika? or Adolf Hitler? And then what? Gather up all the books that have been already printed and burn them?? Then we can just re-write history like the Japanese have done and deny there was a war altogether. Wouldn't the Holocaust Deny-ers (sp) love that one.

Just because you might collect it, doesn't mean that you're a Nazi. You're not collecting the ideology, you're collecting history, you're collecting the memory of men and women who felt strongly about their homeland. Strongly enough to fight and die for it.

___________________

"If a man does his best, what else is there?"
- General George S. Patton (1885-1945)

 

This is probably the only cogent post "FRED KONIG" made.

 

yes i agree that it should not be banned. i just got this from looking for such things [and no i am not a nazi] and there was a french group of people took yahoo to court for them selling nazi memorabilia on the internet. well maybe there might be more in that story but i do not no.

most people agree with the fellings of the sale to continue but they also say that they think no body will "buy that junk"

i leave it to you!!!!!

 

No, I don´t think it should be banned. I believe in the free world and common sense of people. Anyway, I don´t think many of those people trying to ban this or that know very much on the subject actually, they mostly trust their emotions on the matter which is sad.And nothing can chage that.Like the nazi memorabilia and all WW2 German troops linked with concentration camps, then again Stalin never did anything violent (???), and the allied were always nice and polite in WW2. I don´t think owning something from that time is going to make me a killer.

In the same context goes the fact that TV is to blame for all murders and acts of violence. Just show teletubbies and nobody kills anybody....right?

 

Well, I feel rather homicidal after watching the tellytubbies...

But on a serious note: I agree with all previous speakers, as I think do most people who study the war; These items are part of the history we study. I do not see many people becoming more inclined to embrace national socialism because they own a stahlhelm, medals or badges.

It has do do with 'owning a piece of history'. I think the misunderstanding comes from those who are not interested in WW2. I have gotten a few strange looks when I told people I collect books written by Germans vets and want to to research in German archives. The nuances of the issue become more apparent when you actually get involved in researching. For years I only researched the Allied side, but found that I only came to a very one-sided and sometimes biased view of what had happened. To see the whole picture you cannot but study both sides.

It is the same with collecting memorabilia.

 

In war, there is always a good side and bad side. So, if we ban items from one war, we need to ban items from all wars. Then how will we learn from history? Because of this, we should not ban any items. Just like the gun debate, its the people that cause the harm, not the items.

 

Well associating with Stevin concerning WW 2 airwar missions I can say that only in the last 10 years have amny US war vets come around. In the 1960's and early 70's before most of you gents were born there was quite a stir as the term Nazi for a German vet or otherwise seemd to stick. From interivewing quite a few GEramn/US vets the last years a common understanding has been shared thanks to internet and book research also the discussion of heraldry such as militaria. To ban anything of war is plain ridiculous. Why ? some will collect certain items and that is fine. Most of the guys that have shared the last month have a desire for something specific, it depends on what you are collecting for. Are you trying to set up a diversive organization or just plain collecting for fun and sharing of historical knowledge ? I've had fingers put in my face in the early 60's-70's for the amount of "Nazi" books I have on the shelves......has this been wrong ? Not so, if it is to further the knowledge to the less known.

E

 

I think his is one sbject on which we have little disagrement. And don't worry landownuder, unlike other sites where you may feel the need to deny being a Nazi bfore you are accused of it, that is not nessacery here. No one here is accused of being a Nazi because they collect German items, defend Gereman soldiers or point to wrongs done by the good guys.

If you ban Nazi memroblia, than you shold do the same to Confederate flags, the hammer and sickel and anthing else that someone may find offensive. And then where would you stop, and what if someone too offense to the Bible. All this would deny history, and as mentioned, be loved by those who deny the horrors.

Erich, that really pissers me off. Watching a program than goes on about Nazi U-Boats, Nazi planes or Nazi tanks. I often woundred, how he hell did they get this machines to join he party. Can you picture it. A U-Boat with its right bow plane in the air swearing an oath of allicance to the party. As any soldier will tell you, they do't fight for some higher course, as the newsreels might like us to think, they fight for their mates, their unit and their country. Being under a Labour govement does not make me a Labour sldier And though i am a Conservative does mean i lay dow my arms becasue i don't like the goverment.

 

First time I've used the two penn'orth !

I always associate those who wish to ban Nazi memorabilia with those who publish photos of Churchill or Brunel, but with the cigar 'airbrushed out' for reasons of political correctness.

These things happened - they cannot be disinvented and it is wrong to try to do so.

 

I agree with the posts above. If you ban Nazi memorabilia, why stop there? Take down all Confederate flags, ban Civil War merchandise, ban USSR merchandise (afterall, 30 million died under that regime, but we wont likely know for sure), deny the wars took place, dishonor soldiers abroad, and limit freedoms. And it is all in the name of political correctnessness gone wild.

Interesting post though, I am glad we differ little in our opinions on this issue. If people like the posters above do not protect it, I cant see many people abroad doing so either.

 

Great stuff guys!

And if someone wants to cut our privilege to talk then first lets´s hear what they know?! It´s easy to accuse but things are not corrected that way!

Sorry I am angered but people have quite a lot of ideology instead of the real thing but that´s what we´re here for. I mean I forgot the Prochorovka battle as big business to start with as it was not so...unttil 1997.Get real with it! It is a different thing. We must have a need in change of "mind".

I think that an open mind is required...

 

Absolutely not! We have to remember that the military decorations are awarded for military merit-just because a symbol is emblazoned on the decoration does not make it right for us to try and pretend history never happened-It would simply be denying German war dead their rights...

 

While I don't collect it, one cannot deny the past by simply banning items and artifacts connected with it. Nazi memorabilia are all valuable historical documents which help us explain the past. We are restricted enough in this life without having yet another thing taken from us!

Actually, I knew a British WW2 veteran who had a fantastic Nazi collection (he's long dead now, I suspect). He hated the Germans; had killed quite a few himself in WW2 (which he often spoke about!). But he admired the way Germans did things, and made things. Now there's a contradiction for you!

Here in France things are strange - all Nazi items are technically illegal. They cannot be bought or sold; yet the militaria markets/fairs here are full of Nazi items!

 

Just curious!

If they ban the selling and collecting of Nazi Memorabilia what would they propose happen to all the collections and items out there?

Maybe those that want it banned would like to
burn and destroy all.....curious if they really thought this out.
Would those that already have substantial amount of money invested be re-inbursed?

I could see an underground market out there....imagine if one was caught with this banned item would they possibly end up in court or jail?

 

Hello Frau and I agree with you. There is a saying usually used for guns--but ill change it for German stuff. I think it goes something like this: "The only way their going to take my ww2 German militaria, is from my cold dead hands" or something to that effect.

 

I think then all the nazi memorabilia would join the huge club of secret collections that already has a lot of them I think.As well just wonder what all is in the Swiss banks, possibly lakes of Central Europe, Southern America etc etc. Also many valuables have come back after the owner or the person who took it as a souvenir in 44-45 gave them for public viewing in the recent years.

I may be wrong but I have a feeling that the amount of these memorabilia we see is just the tip of the iceberg...What do you guys think?

 

KP, I think you're right. If everyone on the Forum looks at their personal collections (no matter what they collect) and then honestly looks at what they'd sell and what they'd never sell. This'll give you a good idea of how much is out there but is never seen.

The stuff you see at fairs etc. is only the pieces that people are willing to sell so that they can buy the pieces they will never sell.

When you consider that France, the Low Countries, Germany, Austria etc were virtually looted of anything worthy of a souvenir, there must be a huge amount of militaria we have never seen, or even imagine exists. Especially in the East.

I knew of a guy many years ago who had a complete Messerschmidt 162 engine in his collection. Bought it from a private museum that was being broken up after the death of the owner.

Stuff like that you won't see at fairs.

______________

"What do you take me for, an idiot?"
- General Charles de Gaulle (1890-1970), when a journalist asked him if he was happy