Refighting the Pacific War - Alternate History and the Battle of Midway

You are building a castle in the air.

 

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Ummm...Gomer...You posted in the wrong thread again.

We are discussing Midway...

https://youtu.be/C_Kh7nLplWo

 

Filled with Marijuana smoke!

Gomer has posted in the wrong thread...For what? The fourth or fifth time?

 

64. But after June 1943, so if you want to wait...

 

Why worry? Crap is crap. Good ol' Mjöl, heading off the deep end.

 

I don't know, it does provide the periodic belly laugh.

 

!) I mentioned it to prove the point that the 40 H6K can each easily carry over 20 troops.
2) 2 H8K were sent to bomb Hawaii and one on Recce to Midway in March 1942. Eventhough they're not 2L, they can easily carry over 45 troops each.

 

Your "logic" continues to escape me. How does "mention" of the H8K prove anything at all about the H6K? What does the bombing of Hawaii by H8K have to do with anything?

 

Because other items such as interior photographs and structural schematics would disprove it.

Hence, all he is left with is the "Make It So" option.

 

The B

The B-26 had a much higher wing loading than the B-25. The Mitchell's were chosen for Dolittle because they were sedate planes with a fairly low stalling speed. Marauders were anything but sedate with landing and takeoff speeds comparable to fighters. As far as I can find out P-38s were never launched from carriers, every photonI can find show the wings dismounted outboard of the nacelles for transport. Sara wasn't available to ferry aircraft anyway, she arrived at Pearl on June sixth with a green air group and replacement aircraft for Enterprise and Hornet. If you are going to rewrite history, you might as well give Fletcher Lexington, Long Island and Langley as well.

 

Well, given that the B-26s flew direct from California to Hawaii - Can't remember if I pointed this out in the old thread - It makes no sense to stick them on a "slow" carrier for shipment to Midway.

 

Not to mention that the four B-26s actually on Midway had flown there under their own power, as did the six Avengers.

 

Wow, what a thread.

A couple of points:

1) the idea of Midway being an unsinkable carrier is great. The idea of it being an immobile carrier should be considered, too. It's vulnerable to air and sea bombardment, and neutralization.

2) Add to that the fact that Army pilots have little or no training or experience in attacking naval targets at this stage of the war means that relying on the island's airpower to defend against a naval attack would seem unwise.

3) P-38s strafing ain't P-38s escorting. Different operational requirements, and different altitudes. It's hard to engage ships and fighter-planes at the same time.

4) Bombers hanging around to dogfight anything have stupid pilots. You don't fight unless you have to, if your mission is bombing.

This is not a good what-if.

 

And AAF pilots of the single seat fighter variety at that time were quite averse to flying out of sight of land, they had not the over-water navigation training which ALL USN type received.

 

Let's assume for a moment that Japan does successfully invade and take Midway at a high price. Let's say that they lose one carrier and have another heavily damaged. They lose 60% of their carrier planes and 50% of the crews doing this. The landing force somehow overcomes the island defenses taking 75% casualties to do it. Several of the bombardment ships are damaged in the process of that.

The US, likewise, loses 1 carrier and has a second damaged but survives.

Okay, what does that buy Japan? I'd say exactly ZERO. They now have to send escorted ships to reinforce Midway, along with more supplies, and probably they'd want to fly in fighters and other aircraft to help defend the islands. Midway barely has a harbor to speak of, so many of the supply ships have to anchor out offshore. Some get torpedoed and sunk by US submarines. Keeping the island supplied with food and POL becomes a huge issue.

The US brings in some B-24's and regularly shows up to bomb the snot out of the islands. Many of the defending planes get shot down in the process.

The US goes ahead with Cactus and invades and takes Guadalcanal a few months later. Now Japan has to support that operation and Midway. The US also repairs their damaged carrier in a few months and it's back at sea. The Japanese damaged carrier takes a year or more to fix. The Kido Butai lacks sufficient planes for an offensive operation due to losses so having the surviving carriers does them little.

Then the US shows up at Midway in early 1943, smashes the island and takes them back. Japan loses everything invested.

Japan wins the battle of Midway in 1942 and still loses everything months later.

 

Good comments. The Japanese were mainly interested in destroying our carriers, attacking Midway was a way to draw them into battle, so this would be a hollow victory indeed.

Their supply efforts would be further complicated by our codebreaking.

They might feel compelled to use submarines on supply missions, as they did a few months later in the Solomons, which proved highly deleterious to their sub force.