Largest mass surrender in the west?

General Erich Elster surrenders himself and 20,000 troops to Maj. Gen. Robert C. Macon of the U.S. Ninth Army and to Maj. Gen. O.P. Weyland, Commanding General of the XIX Tactical Air Command, on September 16.

http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/photo_galleries/xix_tac_photo_album/Captions/255_Gen_Elster_Surrenders.htm


I´ve seen this being mentioned as the biggest mass surrender in the west? Correct?

 

Kai if im not mistaken I believe that Operation Cobra resulted in at least 50,000 German pow's in the Falaise pocket. Ive also read sources that state the number as high as 150,000.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falaise_pocket

 

General Elster surrendered at Beaugency with almost 20000 men (the exact figure is something like 19600).
The difference between this mass surrender and the Falaise pocket is that in Beaugency Elster chose to surrender with ALL his men at the same time. In Falaise there were more prisonners , but it took several weeks to get them , if not more. Now imagine the scene of 20000 soldiers led by officers on horses and fully armed , the germans still carying their colours, saluting and being saluted by American officers. The whole scene has been filmed . It took several days until the last Germans finally crossed the Loire River. I saw a documentary about this story some time ago, I'll try to find the link for you.

 

Here is a picture of General Botho Elster

http://www.arte.tv/fr/search__results/364038.html

Did you know that he was avery educated man who spoke fluently English and French? He even translated Mobby Dick into German. I believe he died from a heart attack in the early fifties.

 

Don't forget you've got the UK forces surrendering under General. Percival at around 100,000-120,000 UK troops surrendering in January-February 1942.

The largest mass surrender for the Americans resulted in the Bataan Death March. 70,000 troops overall, 10,000 Americans and 60,000 Philippino troops.

Regards,
MARNE

 

True, but did these men surrender together after the decision of one man or was it the surrunder of several groups that were eventually united. I wish it could show you the Pathe film which was realised when Elster surrendered. It looks like a Hollywood film with officers , horses, ironed uniforms, the colours and parade swords. It seems almost unreal , especially after the conditions of their retreat and the lack of comfort they had just been through. Of course the soldiers are far from being like that, they are totally harassed and somtimes wounded and many have walked most of the way, other had confiscated bicycles, stolen horses, carts, or whatever that could move. Also it has to be added that some officers did not want to surrender.

 

I also read that Elster demanded that he would (only?) surrender to Gen Weyland because his forces were destroyed by the air force to the level of not being able to continue battle...

 

Yes and No. The airforces have indeed destroyed some of his forces, but let us not forget the guerilla action of the maquis. In fact the reason why Elster demanded to have all his forced fully armed until the last second, was because he feared to be massacred by the Maquis who had been attacking them on an almost non stop basis from the south of France until the Loire River front. Therefore Elster wanted to surrender to a regular army only. This infuriated the leader of the Resistance (I will try to find his name ) who demanded a second signature. Elster accepted this second surrender but providing he would not have to sign a second official document , so this matter remained unnofficial. The goal was however achieved, as the Resistance who felt they had at first been evicted from the negociations, got some recognisation after this second "so called" surrender.

 

Thanks Skipper wasnt exactly sure what the difference was. Now I do


I would love to see it on film...........It must of been quite a sight!!

 

The original pictures are available on BRITISHPATHE

http://www.britishpathe.com/product_display.php?PHPSESSID=e3bc7746763023f7aae680405195e9f7&searchword=orleans&Search_x=26&Search_y=17&rpp=20&start=1&rpp=20

 

More to come. I have found pictures in a local book called "Orleans memory" of this mass surrender at place where you would not expect.Give me a little while to scan some of them and share them with you. As I told earlier, the troops surrendered at Beaugency. Then they were parked in the plains south of the Loire, near Saint Cyr en Val. This is because it was impossible to transport so many pow at the same time. After a few days, the Germans crossed the Loire river again, but this time at Orleans. On the north shore of the river, trucks were waiting for them (officers would have seats, others would have to stand in overcrowded vehicles). They are surrounded by U.S. troops with light vehicles, such as jeeps + some Maquis and gendarmes to give a hand. The Germans seem relieved and happy that the war is over for them . I have however one picture which shows at least one officer who is not happy at all with Elster's decision.

 

Here is a first picture, others will come soon

 

here is more

 

remembers this is the Elster collumn at Orleans, not Beaugency

 

I hope you enjoy the pictures, sorry for the poor quality of some of them.

 

Sidi Barani, Bardia, Cyrnaica.
Agreed it took 2 months, but 7 out of 12 Italian divisions were either killed or captured.
500 miles gained by Austrailian, New Zealand, and of course British units.
Suffering 500 dead, 55 missing, 1373 wounded
Inflicted
250,000 Italian dead or wounded.
130,000 POWs
Total of 10 Italian divisions out of action.
Awsome performance by the Allies.

 

That's true Skunk, this awesome story deserves a topic on it's own. Kai mentionned "the biggest Mass surrender on the West Front", this is why I say the Elster surrenderer was "the" biggest.

 

Brits, Indians & Aussies, the only Kiwis were driving supply trucks.

Awesome performance by the British Empire!!

13 May 1943 Tunis. Over 150,000 men surrendered.

 

Praise the Commonwealth troops for their performance in Africa and elswhere.
As I already told, there is a distinction: the Elster surrender is the biggest on the west front